Why is the manosphere on the rise? UN Women sounds the alarm over online misogyny
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Saying "it's us, men" (to rule the world) is inherently a narrative that avoid discussing the class division, because being a man is not being part of a social class.
I might have misunderstood what you meant, but this argument is put forward quite often by certain groups that lost completely touch with the class struggle, hence my remark.
Saying "it's us, men" (to rule the world) is inherently a narrative that avoid discussing the class division,
I wasn't the one who claimed white young men were being systemically oppressed...... If you are examining class division through gender then it is an impossible topic to avoid.
You can't have it both ways. I've been saying the whole time it doesn't make sense to examine class struggle through the lens of gender, my claim about "us men" was made to highlight the contradictory nature of the original claim.
because being a man is not being part of a social class.
That is what I've been saying the whole time..
The reason I brought it up was to dispel the claim that white men were being specifically targeted in the first place.
Did you not read the context of the post?
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That statistics is bullshit that would be 66% of all young men
White, Gen z men literally went 67% for Trump
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In my experience the problem isn't the masculinity influencers. Those are just the symptom of misandry in media and a near-total lack of support in society for men, especially young men. When you go on social media almost all discussion concerning men is about how they are the root of all evil, and everything they do is wrong. It's a never ending stream of shaming with no clear way out. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't: If you try to defend yourself or talk about your own problems as a man, it is labeled as misogyny. "Be vulnerable and open up" they say but if you do it's "don't center men you privileged fuck" or "you're being a crybaby".
All this pressure is an impossible equation to solve for a young man who has been pushed by misandrists into insecurity and longs to be accepted in his community. Not just because society's demands are internally inconsistent, but because they clash with patriarchal ideals among the typical women you'll meet IRL.
I'm past 40 and while in my head I still consider myself progressive, I used to show it much more when I was younger. I was honest about my insecurities, I would try not to take up too much space as a man, would try to split responsibilities equally, and so on. At every turn this has caused me problems in relationships, not least with my wife of 10 years who left me for some muscular macho guy because she "doesn't feel like I can take care of her".
So now, while I wish society was different, I try to balance on the needle of acting like I'm not as progressive as I am so women don't "get the ick", while not tripping into what would be labeled misogyny. It's an extremely difficult game to play and it frustrates me to no end that this is where we're at. I'm moving in soon with a woman who I've been dating for a couple of years and it's clear that she desires that I take a leadership position in the home, whereas I'm just longing for a partner who will share the burden with me instead of becoming my subject. But I feel like I have to play that game or she'll eventually lose interest. Too many women want someone to replace their dad.
Bell Hooks wrote about this already in 2003. But somehow it is completely lost on these UN Women pundits that nothing will change unless everybody (including women) change. You can't just blame it on "masculinity influencers". Why are these influencers gaining popularity? Because they offer some way out, some positive message for young men who are completely starved for positive role models.
I am convinced that a woman's voice will count 10x more than the manosphere, if it offers compassion and guidance rather than hate. But such voices are extremely rare.
FWIW, the "men's health awareness month" has brought me some hope in this. It's the first time in a decade that I've seen women in media stand up to defend and show compassion for men, and I think young men will suck that up like a sponge.
I legit can't believe that a comment which unironically contains the phase "media misandry" and recounting a tale about getting left behind for chad is getting upvoted on the fediverse. Damn it reall did not take long for this place to jump the shark.
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When you go on social media almost all discussion concerning men is about how they are the root of all evil, and everything they do is wrong. It's a never ending stream of shaming with no clear way out. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't: If you try to defend yourself or talk about your own problems as a man, it is labeled as misogyny. "Be vulnerable and open up" they say but if you do it's "don't center men you privileged fuck" or "you're being a crybaby".
This is a sentiment often repeated by manosphere influencers and there’s no actual tangible evidence it exists and I think that’s the real issue. The influencers aren’t at all a symptom of a problem men are facing, they are selling men on a problem that doesn’t exist (for money).
I have never at any point in my life (which encompasses the entire lifespan of the internet) been subjected to any significant amount of misandry online or in person. When men talk about experiencing misandry online, it’s almost always in the context of them making comments on content geared towards a women’s issue and invalidating the women’s issue while simultaneously making it about themselves.
You mention being a progressive at heart, forced to cloak yourself in more perceived masculine features as if they are at odds with each other. I too am a progressive and I have never felt like that’s been at odds with my masculinity. I’ve never had a problem taking leadership roles, using force to solve problems, even violently when necessary, and I know how to put my emotions aside in order to get things done. At the same time I have no problems sharing my feelings or being vulnerable with the people I love and trust. I’ve never had an issue following a woman or being in an equal partnership like my marriage is. You can be all these things and my experience with women is that the right ones love you for it.
The real issue is solely man-created and exists solely in the mind, and the manosphere exists to tell you in its not in your mind, that’s it’s real, and that it’s everyone’s fault but your own. They monetize your attention, they sell you supplements and books, none of which are actually designed to help you solve your problems, because if you escape your cycle of self destruction, the money stops.
You mentioned that you’re dating a woman and you feel like you have to hide who you are for her to love you? My friend that’s not you being masculine, nor is it you being “progressive”.
Real masculinity, the kind that these influencers refuse to sell you, is having enough self respect to be yourself. If you want to open up and share your feelings with someone then that’s what you’re damn well going to do. And if she isn’t ok with that then she can find someone else.
Yeah this thread is fucking wild. I can't believe people here are up voting literal manoshpere shit. Oh well, it was nice while it lasted.
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A growing network of online communities known collectively as the “manosphere” is emerging as a serious threat to gender equality, as toxic digital spaces increasingly influence real-world attitudes, behaviours, and policies, the UN agency dedicated to ending gender discrimination has warned.
To paraphrase Jon Lovett, they have "back of the classroom energy" while the left has "front of the classroom energy".
"Teacher teacher, he said something some people might find offensive! Send him to the principal's office"
"Thanks for narcing me out, r****d"
"Teacher teacher, he just said the r-word!"
The left just isn't equipped to deal with the manosphere. Everything the left does just makes the manosphere seem even more cool to the kids.
"The UN is worried about these guys, they must be really badass!"
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Lol, just like I wrote below earlier, anything where an aggressive woman perceives a man as being in charge, it becomes part of the patriarchy and is a target of ridicule and abuse for such angry women. You bang on about the Garrick club as if you're pissy because it exists, whilst defending women-only clubs.
The Garrick Club has incredibly powerful members including kings and prime ministers and hundred of members of Parliament. If you cannot see how excluding women from such a club is an issue of patriarchy then you are really not trying very hard to understand anything here.
Or, maybe you can't accept man-only clubs because you've been manipulated into not doing so, but can accept women-only because "omg oppression they need a safe space wah wah".
I'm banging on about it? You highlighted it from my list and came up with the false narrative that I am somehow OK with womens-only clubs, something I've never claimed (that's a strawman FYI).
You're not interested to learn, nor to have an honest debate. Good luck with that attitude, you'll need it.
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Oh no, a place you couldn't go as a man?!?!? How could you ever survive?!?
You're part of the problem
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To paraphrase Jon Lovett, they have "back of the classroom energy" while the left has "front of the classroom energy".
"Teacher teacher, he said something some people might find offensive! Send him to the principal's office"
"Thanks for narcing me out, r****d"
"Teacher teacher, he just said the r-word!"
The left just isn't equipped to deal with the manosphere. Everything the left does just makes the manosphere seem even more cool to the kids.
"The UN is worried about these guys, they must be really badass!"
wrote last edited by [email protected]in my experience it was the kids in the front whining "Why come they have a black student union and we dont have a white one waaaaah! i am now a victim! DEI! why is that white girl dating a minority waaaaah!"
the victim complex is strong with them, like the dark side of the force it seduces them. (nice I got some white boys angry)
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These are lawmakers who have the power to change your lives & your instinct is treat any issue that may affect men's lives in a negative way as a joke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBQybc2l-gU
E.g: Trump is sending foreign men to El Salvador to a torture camp.
Yeah, it's only funny when it happens to othet men, when your govt does this to YOU, you will be singing a different tune.I think I'll speak up for men here, You need a Men-Only Lemmy/Mbin/PieFed instance. So that you can at least speak up about your issues without being laughed at or downplayed by misandrists
What you are saying doesn't quite tally with reality. Your argument style seems to be to take things which have some element of truth to them and then take them entirely out of context inferring some kind of semi-paranoid hatred in others where it may not exist.
I could imagine that some people might say you have extreme views.
I am a man who believes that more needs to be done for men, but I think your jingoism does a disservice to the true problems many men face. It is so paper thin, overly simplistic and easy to see through that I believe you are only riling up hatred and will not possibly solve any real mens problems with your current approach.
Honestly, your arguments are a parody of real issues. Stop.
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Not all women are becons of morality.
While statistically women are more likely to have empathy and emotional understanding and more communication thus, we are not perfect by any sense.
Your underlying rhetoric here is deeply divisive.
I agree men are more prone to violent action, whether in a leadership role or just as a person. It's why more women attempt suicide but more men are successful.We cant just throw men away. We start with the culture, we start with teaching boys emotional intelligence, language, and how to reach for support. Then, we don't reject them for reaching for such support.
It should be considered masculine to show vulnerability, it is one of the hardest things to get used to, if you've not been allowed/able to for so long. However, vulnerability leads to personal growth. Real vulnerability, followed by acceptance from peers, will give personal growth, understanding, and acceptance.
Fathers, hug your sons and tell them you love them. Teach our sons better. Cultural change is slow, you jumping on to say it's always mens fault is a shallow and lazy thought. You've put so little thought into the "whys".
The men/women culture war has been amplified enough now, we need to come together and find how we can support eachother.
I've been a victim of multiple men. Like, it's truly stupid, where somedays I hate myself solely for letting myself in these situations. But I don't harbor hate for men. I feel bad for the ones who are lost, because I too have been lost.
I want us to focus more on solutions than just, bitching
Thank you for taking time to type this out. This is quality content on the topic, and should be posted under each gender war thread
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And as usual, in an act of irony, men are the biggest misandrist, and my biggest source of pain
I think you're confusing misandry with people just not liking you. It's exceedingly rare for men to be harassed or oppressed simply for their gender.
I don't like this social contract where I get fucked over no matter what
Lol, what are you talking about? Everyone keeps saying this shit, but no one is giving any real world examples. I am a man, if there is some social contract that sets men up to lose, why am I not experiencing it? I'm married, I have friends who are women, I work with several women, I don't have any problems with the opposing sex? Maybe it's a you problem and not a societal one?
I'm just going to abandon it, and lead a massive exile with me. I already have a solar panel, and plan to get more.
Lol, your username is apt. You think you're going to be the Moses of incels and lead a bunch of morons off to the woods with nothing but a solar panel?
I'm literally fucking gaslight by being told I don't have ADHD, told my stomach issues are just because I eat fast, planning is stupid and other incredibly dumb shit. I have to listen to an anti-waxxer father talk shit for over an hour. I had to watch friends sprout sigma shit, called a woman I brought into the server "the huzz", and called me a fucking pussy. Actually, I don't have to deal with your bullshit either.
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Or you start being a 'man' or rather human, and create the life that you want.
If you see yourself as human resource, you are not worth more than that commodity and that value is all you have. Instead, meet other people and start creating.
I'm sick and tired of hitting a wall. I can't live with a hostile family constantly sabotaging my efforts. I'm supposed to at least have some respite at home, people aren't supposed to laugh at you when you try to improve yourself. I have no other recourse, I will just finally blow my fucking head off next pay. Then maybe they will finally ask if they did something wrong.
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I'm sick and tired of hitting a wall. I can't live with a hostile family constantly sabotaging my efforts. I'm supposed to at least have some respite at home, people aren't supposed to laugh at you when you try to improve yourself. I have no other recourse, I will just finally blow my fucking head off next pay. Then maybe they will finally ask if they did something wrong.
Get some counceling first. Seems like you could use some help communicating your needs.
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I think its got merit. Do you recall Steve Bannon when he was just starting out and I quote : "In describing gamers, Bannon said, These guys, these rootless white males, had monster power. ... It was the pre-reddit. It's the same guys on (one of a trio of online message boards owned by IGE) Thottbot who were [later] on reddit" and other online message boards where the alt-right flourished, Bannon said"
this was him talking about World of Warcraft....
I mean yes race does intersect, it’s a longer discussion, I guess I’m just tired of this “whiteness” critique because it feels cheap and easy, hence intellectually lazy. Anything that happens in the west politically can be linked back to whiteness one way or another. I don’t think it’s been particularly helpful as a critique, in fact I think it has backfired and probably needs to go.
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I'm sick and tired of hitting a wall. I can't live with a hostile family constantly sabotaging my efforts. I'm supposed to at least have some respite at home, people aren't supposed to laugh at you when you try to improve yourself. I have no other recourse, I will just finally blow my fucking head off next pay. Then maybe they will finally ask if they did something wrong.
Listen to me: try putting maximum effort into improving yourself.
"I will just finally blow my head off next pay. Then maybe they will finally ask if they did something wrong."
What makes you think that people who have not acknowledged your efforts until now will suddenly gain enough self-awareness to realize that they are the problem after you take your own life?
Join an offline community, engage in fieldwork, sports, or anything where you don’t have to be the best—just be there. Just know that I am rooting for you.
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A commercial incentive?
If you want to commercialize solving the ills of society, you end up with death camps as being simply the end result of efficiency.
If you want to solve the problems of various demographics rather then viewing them as gender-specific instances in order to benefit the whole of society you get, among other benefits, a lot less genocide.
Incentives don't always have to be of commercial value; they can also be moral and assumed.
You don't usually receive commercial value for rescuing an animal, helping a child, or sheltering a woman. What I am saying is, why can't we offer the same moral incentive to men? They are often portrayed as oppressors, and more value can be extracted from the "oppressor bogeyman" than from actually addressing and solving the problems.
What you are describing is not solving the problem; it is, at best, putting the problem under the rug, or at worst, getting rid of the problem altogether.
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I mean yes race does intersect, it’s a longer discussion, I guess I’m just tired of this “whiteness” critique because it feels cheap and easy, hence intellectually lazy. Anything that happens in the west politically can be linked back to whiteness one way or another. I don’t think it’s been particularly helpful as a critique, in fact I think it has backfired and probably needs to go.
I think backfiring would be the wrong phrasing, Caucasian people after all statistically get the best outcome in pretty much every demographic of life IIRC.
For instance i remember as a youngster feeling like life was tough in the USA--until i visited Africa. I don't think its right though to for instance blame current people from England for the occupation of say, India, but I also don't think right for them to claim their country hasn't somehow benefited from it and through that, they themselves.
I am optimistic about the future though. I am biracial and I feel as mobility/travel/the acceptance of others has grown eventually we will all be one--and yes I realize how sappy that is.
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Can I ask a question ? Why do you assume that feminists were ever pro-left ??
SeriouslyThat has nothing to do with my remark. The far-right is anti-feminist.
As to you question, there are many different strands of feminism and Marxist feminism, anarcha-feminism, intersectional feminism, queer feminism etc. are very much pro-left.
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True, if we are talking as if today was 1950 and the socioeconomic situation were the same. But it's not. There's almost 80 years of progress and the socioeconomic situation is not even comparable. So, although true it was a problem 80 years ago, its a bit shortsigthed to claim same applies today.
The 1950s was when women were relegated to the role of housewife. You are asking why women don't want to be relegated to that role.
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To paraphrase Jon Lovett, they have "back of the classroom energy" while the left has "front of the classroom energy".
"Teacher teacher, he said something some people might find offensive! Send him to the principal's office"
"Thanks for narcing me out, r****d"
"Teacher teacher, he just said the r-word!"
The left just isn't equipped to deal with the manosphere. Everything the left does just makes the manosphere seem even more cool to the kids.
"The UN is worried about these guys, they must be really badass!"
Wat?
The manosphere is literally a bunch of losers that can't get laid and are making excuses for it.
Work out. Have a career. Don't be a asshole. Do that and you can get laid but that's too hard for some folks.
