US to withdraw from NATO under Republican bill
-
This post did not contain any content.
Honestly, NATO might be better off without them
-
Except they have the largest nuclear arsenal and the world biggest navy. They can't be ignored.
My brother-in-law is career Navy and he says they'd get mopped by the Chinese.
-
You don't have to support nato if you don't want to... just don't say you are not supporting Russia. Nato has one purpose and it's to stop the Soviet union / Russia from taking over Europe.
NATOs other purpose is to stop socialism/communism from existing and emerging anywhere, unjustifiably. The Soviet Union wasn’t going to take over Europe, that was a lie created by the US and others. The US was the aggressor during the Cold war working overtime to sabotage any socialist nation because of “freedoms” and “democracy.”
Russia has been a capitalist country since the fall of the USSR (goal accomplished I guess) but the West has still wanted to destroy them even before the Ukraine conflict. Yes what Russia is doing is wrong and they need to be stopped, but also the US, EU, and NATO.
-
They want out because it's stopping to be a market for the US military industries, as Europe increasingly wants to spend domestically. As such, it now has very little interest.
US: We want you to spend more on defence!
Europe: Ok, we will buy more, from our own companies!
US: That's not what I meant! I'm going home!Cause and effect are a little twisted here. Trump was already undermining NATO during is first term by saying European members should spend more. They didn't agree at the time, but the Ukraine War proved that Europe really did need a more domestic MIC, and now they are.
Trump wasn't saying it in the first place because he thought it would help NATO.
-
My brother-in-law is career Navy and he says they'd get mopped by the Chinese.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Eeeeehhh, if you just look at numbers of boats, yes. The US Navy has far, far more experience, though. Drones are also going to change the game in ways we're only starting to see with the Ukraine War. With that, the answer might be "everyone's boats are sunk now".
China probably couldn't gain air superiority over Taiwan, and without that, an invasion will fail. That will be true even if the US ends up losing more boats.
-
Israel, Iran, China, and Taiwan are all outside the scope of NATO.
Canada, Greenland, and most of the EU do fall under NATO protection though. It's a defensive alliance with well defined boundaries, member countries may have interests in other parts of the world, but since none of Israel, Iran, China, or Taiwan are NATO members it's not something NATO deals with. Unless one of those countries were to attack NATO of course.
Russia is in no shape to make war on Europe right now, they have their hands full with just Ukraine, and face economic collapse. Iran is in a similar situation. Trump has stopped his 51st state talk, but he's insane so you never know. China invading Taiwan? Trump is weak (he only talks tough) so you never know. But China is authoritarian and as we've seen of late authoritarian regimes don't seem to be doing well running military campaigns so it's possible they don't even have the capability of invading Taiwan.
China might have a 2 year window coming up where it's even possible to invade Taiwan. Their military has modernized a lot, but they probably aren't quite to the point of being able to pull it off. At the same time, they are looking at a demographic cliff from the long term implications of the One Child policy.
It's possible this window as already closed. That said, authoritarian regimes have started wars before that were terrible ideas.
-
If they're going to withdraw then why are they strong arming all the other nations to spending 5% GDP on defense? If they're not in NATO, who gives a fuck what they want?
It was a talking point that Trump had in his first term. He tends not to let go of bad ideas once they get into his head.
At the time, people didn't take it seriously. With the Ukraine War, Europe feels like it has to now. But it's going to be domestic production, not paying US MIC companies like Trump was thinking.
-
So, they wished the increased spending to the monkey paw and got exactly what they were wishing for: countries are cancelling orders of complex US equipment all over the world, and Europe is developing a military industry to compete with them.
that is the less undesirable outcome, but still it is depressing how primitive and fucking dumb humans are to still be bashing each others skulls in in the year 2025.
-
This bill is going nowhere, and Trump just said at the summit that he would honor article 5.
I know Trump often changes his mind, but the summit showed that Trump has definitely changed course for the better regarding NATO.Not sure how much I trust Trump, but yeah Mike Lee (who introduced the bill) is someone who just likes introducing bills. The fact no one else joined him means this article and conversation is about all he could expect to actually happen.
-
They wanted to leave during Trump’s first term because it helps Russia’s war with Europe
The increased spending is just meant to make the incumbents unpopular so the Russian backed candidates can win
That's probably a factor as well.
-
Except they have the largest nuclear arsenal and the world biggest navy. They can't be ignored.
Only "solution" I see is civil war. The nukes are still a problem for the rest of the world though
-
Honestly, NATO might be better off without them
Why do you think that? How would losing half the military assets and technology would benefit NATO?
-
that is the less undesirable outcome, but still it is depressing how primitive and fucking dumb humans are to still be bashing each others skulls in in the year 2025.
I don't think the US military complex consider that "less undesirable" than basically any other possible outcome.
... well, it may be better in their minds than an asteroid destroying Earth before they can cash-out. Maybe. I'm not sure about this one...
-
Great!! Fuck right off USA!!! Without you idiotic dipshits in NATO the rest of the aligned countries don’t have to listen to your moronic whining to spend $ on US defense weaponry/planes etc. You won’t be missed and piss off. From Canada’s POV we’re really looking forward to spending billions on Saab Gripens - so we can protect ourselves from you.
hello Russian shill.
-
Russia is losing against Ukraine, the fuck they gonna do against EU, unless they use nukes in which case who cares, it's game over
Russia has an army that is capable of invading another country. The only country in NATO that have done that is the US.
I don't think Russia invading the whole of the EU is a realistic possibility but grabbing a few ex Soviet countries off the border... -
hello Russian shill.
Are you high? The US president is literally a Putin fluffer. But please, go on.
-
Why do you think that? How would losing half the military assets and technology would benefit NATO?
The US is great at spending money in the military, but it absolutely sucks at actual war.
Look how they wasted trillions in Afghanistan to surrender to the Taliban.
the US military exists solely to funnel tax payer money to military shareholders.
-
My brother-in-law is career Navy and he says they'd get mopped by the Chinese.
sounds like E1 speak to me. I'm sure your BIL is a lovely cadet, but he should learn when to turn-to and stfu.
-
The US is great at spending money in the military, but it absolutely sucks at actual war.
Look how they wasted trillions in Afghanistan to surrender to the Taliban.
the US military exists solely to funnel tax payer money to military shareholders.
I'll grant you it's a big racket, it's corrupt, it's inefficient, but I don't think it's a skill issue.
I wouldn't consider failing to win the hearts and minds of the local populace using violence a military failure rather than a policy failure.
-
Are you high? The US president is literally a Putin fluffer. But please, go on.
yes!
and...?
