Netherlands: 18 year old Ryan al-Najjar was tied up, beaten, and drowned by her father and brothers for being too Westernized
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Two tiny websites who don't even have mbfc ratings...
Thanks for proving my point there's no trustworthy sources, since it's a safe assumption those were the best you could find short of the literal far right tabloid you first learned about this from
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I get these news sources might not be perfect.
It's not like these things are uncommon,
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/honor-killing-convictions-woman-stabbed-in-front-daughter-netherlands/Here is another source found in a local dutch newspaper
https://www.omroepflevoland.nl/nieuws/415004/ook-vader-van-ryan-18-wordt-vervolgd-voor-ombrengen-dochterHow many news sources do you need? There is probably not a single news source out there that somebody won't be able to find fault in.
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wrote on last edited by [email protected]
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Honor_Killing)
Yes, there is a relation between honour killings and Islam, please read the link above. Unlawful sex relations (something that the girl did by the eyes of Islam just by having a boyfriend) are expected to be punishable by death, the only thing is that it is expected to be done by authorities.
Please also read the exmuslim sub on Reddit to see that this is not an isolated case, things like this happens all the time. Watering down Islam enables these things to continue.
If you want to know about Islam read the Quran and the Hadiths (the only real source), not some articles trying to make this cult beautiful and peaceful. It is not.
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wrote on last edited by [email protected]
I'm sorry, how does adding witnesses make it ok? All that does is legitimize it.
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I'm not in a position to deep-dive into whether this specific story is true or not, but here is some information that I think is important for readers to know:
If you're not from the UK then you might not know about Daily Mail news. This is a far right "news source" that has very poor journalistic integrity and often makes shit up. They have a very strong "anti-foreigner" agenda and heavily embellish or make up stuff to stoke up sentiment about "backward savages foreigners". They are not a reliable news source at all. Wikipedia does not accept Daily Mail as a source.
Personally: if I see a Daily Mail source, I wouldn't bother reading the story at all as the "news" will be of less value than used toilet paper. These turds thrive on writing rage-bait which then circulates on social media (this story currently has a higher upvote score than any BBC, Guardian, etc sourced news recently posted to this community).
Same can be said about the Dutch news paper de Telegraaf (maybe a little bit less). It is a right-wing anti immigration newspaper. But I thought okay I look it up in de Telegraaf. But there is no news article about a email from the father.
Only news article I can find with a quick search is the daily mail. (About the father's email)
The new source the op added also don't say it.
Because yes there was maybe (at this moment it's in court) a honour killing, and the dad is indeed a suspect (together with her brothers).
The dad also seems to hide in Syria and the brother's are held in prison. But I can't find a Dutch news article saying something about a email.De Telegraaf of course made news articles about it. But the newest was 16 april.
A more updated article can be found here Omrop fryslân from the 27 of may about the court case and what's happening there. (Written in Dutch and Fryske. But auto translation in English is available)
As she lived in the province fryslân the regional press follows this case.
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I get these news sources might not be perfect.
It's not like these things are uncommon,
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/honor-killing-convictions-woman-stabbed-in-front-daughter-netherlands/Here is another source found in a local dutch newspaper
https://www.omroepflevoland.nl/nieuws/415004/ook-vader-van-ryan-18-wordt-vervolgd-voor-ombrengen-dochterHow many news sources do you need? There is probably not a single news source out there that somebody won't be able to find fault in.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]You've made it abundantly obvious that you're problem is the religion and not an isolated incident.
It's also obvious why you're hyper focused on the far right extremists of just one of the Abrhamic religions when literally all of them have extremists doing the same fucking shit. Because their rationale for doing so is literal the same original rules, and for the literal same god.
If you want to avoid people pointing out the bias in what you're doing talk about far right religious extremists of all religions, not just a singular one.
Especially when the religion you're hyper focused on are the victims of multiple genocides right fucking now
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You've made it abundantly obvious that you're problem is the religion and not an isolated incident.
It's also obvious why you're hyper focused on the far right extremists of just one of the Abrhamic religions when literally all of them have extremists doing the same fucking shit. Because their rationale for doing so is literal the same original rules, and for the literal same god.
If you want to avoid people pointing out the bias in what you're doing talk about far right religious extremists of all religions, not just a singular one.
Especially when the religion you're hyper focused on are the victims of multiple genocides right fucking now
wrote on last edited by [email protected]It has less to do with religion and more to do with culture, there are Christian, Muslim and Atheistic cultures that discriminate against women, neither of them should be tolerated.
There are cultures where female genital mutilation is commonplace, and that has little to do with religion.
Hundreds of thousands of women in Europe are put through this, just like honour killings, we need to raise awareness that this is happening and put a stop to it. -
I'm sorry, how does adding witnesses make it ok? All that does is legitimize it.
Well, it also makes it almost impossible for such a thing to actually happen short of a confession. I mean Pakistan has been implementing hudood 50 years and still hasn't had one of case of implementing the hadd for fornication or adultery (on the latter of which is punishable by death), because how are you going to get four adult males watching two people have sex? Pretty much all, if not straight up all, cases of honor killing are committed in direct contradiction to Islam, because they're fundamentally a cultural act, not a religious act.
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https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Honor_Killing)
Yes, there is a relation between honour killings and Islam, please read the link above. Unlawful sex relations (something that the girl did by the eyes of Islam just by having a boyfriend) are expected to be punishable by death, the only thing is that it is expected to be done by authorities.
Please also read the exmuslim sub on Reddit to see that this is not an isolated case, things like this happens all the time. Watering down Islam enables these things to continue.
If you want to know about Islam read the Quran and the Hadiths (the only real source), not some articles trying to make this cult beautiful and peaceful. It is not.
Unlawful sex relations (something that the girl did by the eyes of Islam just by having a boyfriend) are expected to be punishable by death, the only thing is that it is expected to be done by authorities.
Unlawful sex relations while married (so cheating) are expected to be punishable by death enacted by the authorities if you can pass the nearly impossible burden of proof of four male adult witnesses. This is a lot harder than it sounds, for example Pakistan hasn't had one of these in its 50 years of implementing hudood. In this case the girl wasn't even married, so the father was acting on his own pejorative, not Islam.
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A Syrian refugee who fled to the Netherlands has reportedly confessed to murdering his 18-year-old daughter and dumping her body in a canal before fleeing the country in an apparent admission note sent to a Dutch newspaper.
Father-of-nine Khaled al-Najjar, 52, wrote in an email sent to De Telegraaf that he had killed his 18-year-old daughter Ryan al-Najjar, urging the publication to report 'I am the one who killed'.
The confession did not specify exactly why he had decided to murder his daughter, with al-Najjar writing only that he was 'very angry with her', adding: 'The reason is between me and the judge. I will read that in court'.
But neighbours and friends suspect Ryan's death came as the result of an honour killing, with one claiming they had previously sheltered her when she had fled the family home in fear of retribution from her father.
Requesting anonymity to prevent any backlash, they told De Telegraaf that Ryan had a Dutch boyfriend, wanted to stop wearing a headscarf and had been beaten by her father who disagreed with her adoption of a Western lifestyle.
Source:
Back to Syria then
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It has less to do with religion and more to do with culture, there are Christian, Muslim and Atheistic cultures that discriminate against women, neither of them should be tolerated.
There are cultures where female genital mutilation is commonplace, and that has little to do with religion.
Hundreds of thousands of women in Europe are put through this, just like honour killings, we need to raise awareness that this is happening and put a stop to it.It has less to do with religion and more to do with culture
No. It's far right religious extremism....
You're taking the actions of the most extreme 0.001% and using a label that applies to literally billions of people...
It's hard to believe someone cant logically understand that
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It has less to do with religion and more to do with culture
No. It's far right religious extremism....
You're taking the actions of the most extreme 0.001% and using a label that applies to literally billions of people...
It's hard to believe someone cant logically understand that
What label did I put on which people?
I never said anything bad about a single group of people, I simply want to shine light on the fact that honour killings and genital mutilations needs to stop, and that women should be treated as equals.
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I'm not in a position to deep-dive into whether this specific story is true or not, but here is some information that I think is important for readers to know:
If you're not from the UK then you might not know about Daily Mail news. This is a far right "news source" that has very poor journalistic integrity and often makes shit up. They have a very strong "anti-foreigner" agenda and heavily embellish or make up stuff to stoke up sentiment about "backward savages foreigners". They are not a reliable news source at all. Wikipedia does not accept Daily Mail as a source.
Personally: if I see a Daily Mail source, I wouldn't bother reading the story at all as the "news" will be of less value than used toilet paper. These turds thrive on writing rage-bait which then circulates on social media (this story currently has a higher upvote score than any BBC, Guardian, etc sourced news recently posted to this community).
Absolute bullshit. Honor killings are a systemic issue in the muslim world, a goddamned travesty, and it has nothing to do with how it's reported, especially not in this case.
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I'm not in a position to deep-dive into whether this specific story is true or not, but here is some information that I think is important for readers to know:
If you're not from the UK then you might not know about Daily Mail news. This is a far right "news source" that has very poor journalistic integrity and often makes shit up. They have a very strong "anti-foreigner" agenda and heavily embellish or make up stuff to stoke up sentiment about "backward savages foreigners". They are not a reliable news source at all. Wikipedia does not accept Daily Mail as a source.
Personally: if I see a Daily Mail source, I wouldn't bother reading the story at all as the "news" will be of less value than used toilet paper. These turds thrive on writing rage-bait which then circulates on social media (this story currently has a higher upvote score than any BBC, Guardian, etc sourced news recently posted to this community).
Dutchie here, her disappearance, the investigation and the trial all have been widely covered by national news. Completely agreeing with you on the Daily Mail being a legitimate source and they might well have their own agenda for publishing this but what's in the post (havent opened the daily mail article) is all true.
I'm not sure who's behind nltimes (they translate news from the Netherlands so for me there is no reason to check them ever), but I've seen it linked in many occasions before and have never seen a headline that striked me as false.
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Absolute bullshit. Honor killings are a systemic issue in the muslim world, a goddamned travesty, and it has nothing to do with how it's reported, especially not in this case.
It's not bullshit. The story might be completely true as reported, but the Daily Mail will push the study as hard as they can because it advances their racist agenda. For that reason, nothing they publish should be posted.
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Unlawful sex relations (something that the girl did by the eyes of Islam just by having a boyfriend) are expected to be punishable by death, the only thing is that it is expected to be done by authorities.
Unlawful sex relations while married (so cheating) are expected to be punishable by death enacted by the authorities if you can pass the nearly impossible burden of proof of four male adult witnesses. This is a lot harder than it sounds, for example Pakistan hasn't had one of these in its 50 years of implementing hudood. In this case the girl wasn't even married, so the father was acting on his own pejorative, not Islam.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]How people speak about this like this is normal and ok is beyond me, but anyway, the influence is there, the belief that this is so immoral that is punishable by death it is there too. And the fact that nowadays this practice is so extended in this particular religion is another thing.
Of course the authorities of any country that is not a hell hole won't do anything about it even if they had these "four male adult witnesses", especially in any European countries, that might be a reason why the families do this on their own influenced by these barbaric beliefs.
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It's not bullshit. The story might be completely true as reported, but the Daily Mail will push the study as hard as they can because it advances their racist agenda. For that reason, nothing they publish should be posted.
What you're doing is lessening the importance of a reported fact due to its source. And that's real problematic!
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Well, it also makes it almost impossible for such a thing to actually happen short of a confession. I mean Pakistan has been implementing hudood 50 years and still hasn't had one of case of implementing the hadd for fornication or adultery (on the latter of which is punishable by death), because how are you going to get four adult males watching two people have sex? Pretty much all, if not straight up all, cases of honor killing are committed in direct contradiction to Islam, because they're fundamentally a cultural act, not a religious act.
Where can I read about the honor killings on English in detail: with rules, code, persecution of such practice? I'm not well versed in muslim-esque topics, so I can tell if sources are good or garbage only by my own intuition and it's unreliable.
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Absolute bullshit. Honor killings are a systemic issue in the muslim world, a goddamned travesty, and it has nothing to do with how it's reported, especially not in this case.
This is making a classic media literacy mistake.
The argument being made is that we can disregard the source if the thing that the headline is about is a real phenomena, regardless of if the actual anecdote is true. I don't think you can ever disregard the source; we should always ask who told this story and why.
Also, OP definitely made a choice providing this url instead of another. Sensationalist headline? Mistake on their part? Lack of English language alternative?
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wrote on last edited by [email protected]
I mean Pakistan has been implementing hudood 50 years and still hasn’t had one of case of implementing the hadd for fornication or adultery (on the latter of which is punishable by death)
I was certain that this was not true (I could swear I've even read articles about it). Took a 3 second google search to disprove it:
According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, over 470 cases of honour killings were reported in Pakistan in 2021. But human rights defenders estimate that around 1,000 women are murdered in the name of honour every year.[3][4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_killing_in_Pakistan
because how are you going to get four adult males watching two people have sex?
I don't know, maybe they just fucking lie?
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Where can I read about the honor killings on English in detail: with rules, code, persecution of such practice? I'm not well versed in muslim-esque topics, so I can tell if sources are good or garbage only by my own intuition and it's unreliable.
The person you're replying to is full of shit. They happen in Pakistan all of the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_killing_in_Pakistan
