What does China achieve from invading Taiwan?
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One argument against democracy in China is that it is incompatible with Chinese culture.
Looking at Taiwan having a very successful democracy with Chinese culture is problematic for the Chinese Communist Party for that reason.
What are you talking about? They have elections all the time, and the workers exercise a tremendous amount of power.
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I understand the historical significance since the nationalists retreated to Taiwan at the end of the Chinese Civil War.
Back then, and for perhaps the middle part of the 20th century, there was a threat of a government in exile claiming mainland China. Historically, then, there was your impetus for invasion.
However, China has since grown significantly, and Taiwan no longer claims to be the government of mainland China, so that reason goes away.
Another reason people give: control the supply of chips. Yet, wouldn’t the Fabs, given their sensitive nature, be likely to be significantly destroyed in the process of an invasion?
Even still, China now has its own academia and engineering, and is larger than Taiwan. Hence, even without the corporate espionage mainland China is known for, wouldn’t investing in their burgeoning semiconductor industry make more sense, rather than spending that money on war?
People mention that taking Taiwan would be a breakout from the “containment” imposed by the ring of U.S. allies in the region.
Yet while taking Taiwan would mean access to deep-water ports, it’s not as though Taiwan would ever pose a threat to Chinese power projection—their stance is wholly defensive. If China decided to pull an “America” and send a carrier to the Middle East or something, no one would stop them and risk a war.
So what is it then? Is it just for national pride and glory? Is it to create a legacy for their leadership? The gamble just doesn’t really seem worth it.
Anyway, appreciate your opinions thanks!
The premise of your question is all wrong. It centers western control of Taiwan as a natural status quo, and so paints every challenge of that control as a provocation or threat.
Advocating for Taiwan’s sovereignty is not the same as advocating for Taiwan’s continued fealty to the west.
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The fabs themselves aren't the only limiting factor on modern lithography, skill is the bigger one; this stuff is probably more complicated than rocket science. We US engineers dont have the skills to run a competitive fab in the US, that takes many years of losing money to be developed. Intel has bigger better EUV machines than TSMC but they just cant compete and intel keeps laying off their engineers constantly which is a very bad signal.
Also, last time I was reading on the topic TSMC doesn't plan to produce advanced chips on their US fabs to gatekeep their knowledge.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Intel has bigger better EUV machines than TSMC
Do they ? I thought they were pretty late on the EUV train, so maybe now they may have more modern machines than tsmc but they clearly lack the expertise to make the most out of it
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Lol, ok. So Taiwan can only separate with a legal referendum held by China?
They are already separated. China has no effective control on taiwan . They ceased the territory to japan. That's not taiwan fault, only chinese fault. Taiwan population is the one with the autority to decide what they want. If they want to join china again. The united snake has no right to intervene. If taiwan want to stay independemt china has no right to intervene. What china has right to do is protect it's own security and not let the united snake to use them as a proxy against china
Your argument is similar to israeli claim that they had the right to force their state on local people because palestine land was part of old jewish kingdoms 2000 years ago
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They are already separated. China has no effective control on taiwan . They ceased the territory to japan. That's not taiwan fault, only chinese fault. Taiwan population is the one with the autority to decide what they want. If they want to join china again. The united snake has no right to intervene. If taiwan want to stay independemt china has no right to intervene. What china has right to do is protect it's own security and not let the united snake to use them as a proxy against china
Your argument is similar to israeli claim that they had the right to force their state on local people because palestine land was part of old jewish kingdoms 2000 years ago
They are already separated. China has no effective control on taiwan . They ceased the territory to japan.
When was the legal referendum?
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They are already separated. China has no effective control on taiwan . They ceased the territory to japan.
When was the legal referendum?
China ceaded it to japan. It is similar to when i give someone something i can't go after few years and force the person to return back what i gave them
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You are approaching this from the perspective of a rational peaceful person from the west, where usually the economy is number one in everything.
Xi has achieved unrivaled rule over the party. He has successfully established a police state that ensures that any domestic dissent is immediately crushed with brutal efficiency. He has subjugated the provinces that dared to think about self rule and cultural differences, and is in the process of ethnic cleansing without any significant opposition or consequences. He has gained colonial influence all over Africa through economic means. He has taken over Hong Kong. He has significantly modernized and expanded the military, including nuclear weapons. He had made China into a global economic superpower, which other countries, including rivals, depend on for a significant amount of manufactured goods and resources.
So what is left for him? Surely he is not a man who can be content with what he has.
The obvious next step is to make China into a military superpower. For that you need to exert power abroad. What better place to begin with than that small island just off your coast that has been a challenge to Chinese supremacy for decades?
Of course, Taiwan is kind of protected by the US, the dominant superpower of the time. But they are struggling, looking weak. If China manages to take Taiwan, they will not only have removed that thorn in their side, they will also have punched the biggest, meanest kid on the block on the nose and gotten away with it.
You are approaching this from the perspective of a rational peaceful person from the west,
Least chauvinistic .worlder.
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China ceaded it to japan. It is similar to when i give someone something i can't go after few years and force the person to return back what i gave them
China ceaded it to japan
Really? When was the legal referendum?
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China ceaded it to japan
Really? When was the legal referendum?
Referendum is not the only legal way. China did a bad deal but it's still legal. China should have never ceaded that territory and continue to resist japanese occupation. So don't blame china fault on taiwanese
I will reiterate china has the right to protect it's security and interests but not to try to reunify without taiwanese population approval -
I understand the historical significance since the nationalists retreated to Taiwan at the end of the Chinese Civil War.
Back then, and for perhaps the middle part of the 20th century, there was a threat of a government in exile claiming mainland China. Historically, then, there was your impetus for invasion.
However, China has since grown significantly, and Taiwan no longer claims to be the government of mainland China, so that reason goes away.
Another reason people give: control the supply of chips. Yet, wouldn’t the Fabs, given their sensitive nature, be likely to be significantly destroyed in the process of an invasion?
Even still, China now has its own academia and engineering, and is larger than Taiwan. Hence, even without the corporate espionage mainland China is known for, wouldn’t investing in their burgeoning semiconductor industry make more sense, rather than spending that money on war?
People mention that taking Taiwan would be a breakout from the “containment” imposed by the ring of U.S. allies in the region.
Yet while taking Taiwan would mean access to deep-water ports, it’s not as though Taiwan would ever pose a threat to Chinese power projection—their stance is wholly defensive. If China decided to pull an “America” and send a carrier to the Middle East or something, no one would stop them and risk a war.
So what is it then? Is it just for national pride and glory? Is it to create a legacy for their leadership? The gamble just doesn’t really seem worth it.
Anyway, appreciate your opinions thanks!
The giant American military base next to China falls.
Also Taiwan claims to be part of China. And America claims Taiwan is part of China.
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I understand the historical significance since the nationalists retreated to Taiwan at the end of the Chinese Civil War.
Back then, and for perhaps the middle part of the 20th century, there was a threat of a government in exile claiming mainland China. Historically, then, there was your impetus for invasion.
However, China has since grown significantly, and Taiwan no longer claims to be the government of mainland China, so that reason goes away.
Another reason people give: control the supply of chips. Yet, wouldn’t the Fabs, given their sensitive nature, be likely to be significantly destroyed in the process of an invasion?
Even still, China now has its own academia and engineering, and is larger than Taiwan. Hence, even without the corporate espionage mainland China is known for, wouldn’t investing in their burgeoning semiconductor industry make more sense, rather than spending that money on war?
People mention that taking Taiwan would be a breakout from the “containment” imposed by the ring of U.S. allies in the region.
Yet while taking Taiwan would mean access to deep-water ports, it’s not as though Taiwan would ever pose a threat to Chinese power projection—their stance is wholly defensive. If China decided to pull an “America” and send a carrier to the Middle East or something, no one would stop them and risk a war.
So what is it then? Is it just for national pride and glory? Is it to create a legacy for their leadership? The gamble just doesn’t really seem worth it.
Anyway, appreciate your opinions thanks!
China considers taiwan a part of its country. If china is able to capture and integrate taiwan into it then it will show that china has become a superpower. If china can capture taiwan then it will show USA and west that china is not a paper tiger.