So proud!
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And English is a very contextual language so something can be a slur in one use and not in another.
Is that actually true? I'm struggling to think of any examples.
There are occasions where a technical term is used as a slur in casual conversations while still being perfectly acceptable in the original context. "Retarded" for example. That certainly does not apply here.
There's some words that are more or less offensive in different English-speaking countries. "Cunt" and "Bloody" come to mind there. There's also been some attempt at reclaiming "cunty" for women which... Eh, I'm just gonna stay away from that one.
"Mansplaining" is offensive from it's very etymology. It's baked into the word without cultural context. The word itself is formed from unnecessary and bigoted generation.
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I knew about this before a bit, however in the museum they have a few bits dedicated to what information we have of Sophie Scholl and the White Rose resistance attempt.
As the Nazis tried vehemently to erase evidence of dissent, amongst other things of course, the story of Scholl's attempt at gathering resistance has survived - despite her expected demise.I have not read up on my History in many years, however it's often a short yet symbolic read to the persistence some humans have shown in the face of terror. I do recommend it.
Incredible
Sophie Scholl and the rest, heroes and martyrs
Distributed anti-nazi pamphlets and tried to take all the blame to save their friends. Defiant to the end, supporting their country but not its evil divergence.
RIP:
Sophie Scholl, Hans Scholl, Christoph Probst, Willi Graf, Alexander Schmorell, and Kurt Huber
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Are we really suggesting that the perception of the recipient is more valid than the intent of the subject? That's kinda the whole problem.
When the topic is "do people use the term mansplaining to describe men explaining something without being condescending", yes.
Is it mansplaining for a man who's been a physical trainer for years to explain to a woman that she's about to seriously hurt herself with improper form?
This is why I said
and whether the person is actually being condescending is a totally different topic
For the topic we're talking about (do people use the term to describe men explaining things while not being condescending), if the woman in that example thought the man was being condescending and thought she knew better, she'd be using the term properly as you describe it should be used. That's the point I'm trying to illustrate. In her mind she views the man as being condescending. In her mind she believes she knows better. So she's using the term correctly.
Now to be clear, I'm not saying it is mansplaining. Nor am I saying the man shouldn't be doing it in that scenario.
In her mind she views the man as being condescending. In her mind she believes she knows better. So she's using the term correctly.
Now to be clear, I'm not saying it is mansplaining. Nor am I saying the man shouldn't be doing it in that scenario.
That's my point. It's being used far too liberally. I'm not saying they don't feel justified in using it, I'm saying that the standard being applied is far too low, and it shuts down legitimate communication. It has the built in defense of delegitimizing any attempts at clarification, because obviously the mansplainer is just mansplaining how he isn't mansplaining.
To go back to my analogy:
Would you likewise agree that a man would be justified in accusing a woman, with an accurate and valid complaint, of womancomplaining simply because he felt she was exaggerating? And couldn't he then go on to deflect any clarification she offers as further womancomplaining?
I'm not saying these people don't feel like they're using their terms correctly, I'm saying that it shuts down communication and accelerates the weaponization of accusation. It contributes to the gender divide, and has certainly helped to nudge men towards man-o-sphere radicalization.
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It's so cute when two eager guys become dumps for each other 🥰
Love seeing two dudes just dumping on each other, so wholesome, men need more friends like that
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Did she get his name wrong on purpose?
I think she got so focused on her 'sick burn', the resulting heat waves obscured her vision, causing her to misread "Shane" as "Shawn".
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"Mansplaining" is sexist. It's the equivalent of saying women are airheads, or gossips, or talk too much.
Is each man expected to just... Assume that everyone else shares their exact knowledge? Would such an assumption not therefore eliminate most communication entirely?
Or what if we decided to divide up groups by something other than gender. Would it be okay to say "asiansplaining" or "jewsplaining" or "gaysplaoning"?
Can a trans-man mansplaining? Can a trans-woman mansplain? Is there a separate category of "transplaining"?
Not gonna lie, I had no idea until this post that "mansplaining" was strictly considered male behavior. I've had women do the same thing when I'm in spaces or situations that are traditionally female dominated, and figured that "mansplaining" was the appropriate descriptor for that. TIL.
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So I’ve noticed this post isn’t going over very well. I’d like to add a female perspective.
“Mansplain” isn’t meant to say you info dump or over explain a thing. It means that you assume you know more simply based on sex. It’s a type of misogyny that’s more typically overt in boomer culture, but it’s got a following in the whole Tate movement. I have rarely noticed it outside of that generation in the wild.
Now…Guys do infodump, which leads to this confusion, because a lot of people dislike that behavior too. Statistically women do speak less in mixed groups. Put it all together and it’s easy for people to over generalize a very specific behavior. It does happen, but compared to previous generations it’s not as common. It definitely occurs to women who work in non-traditional fields and take on non-traditional roles and I suspect that the same is true for men.
Info dump goes both ways, men usually info dump about things, women info dump about people. Its echoed in men vs women photography of trips also. Men typically photograph things (here's a car/bike/castle I saw), and typically women photograph people.( here's me and my sister, here's a court yard with people dancing)
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Look, you're not wrong. It's just really hard for me to take it seriously.
Does it truly hurt your feelings that men are stereotyped as overbearing and condescending? Are you truly injured by this stereotype? Are you personally treated differently because of it?
Maybe it's just the people that hang out with, but I don't find that any of them have had this phrase used against them. It seems more like we're trying very hard to be offended because we have so little else to be offended by. In the name of fairness.
But that's just me and my friends. Maybe you get teased with this incessantly and it really causes you emotional trauma. In that case, I apologize, and please tell me your story.
I've never had this phrase used against me personally, but that's probably because I don't really talk much with bigots.
If we want to build a world that is equal and just for everyone, we cannot afford to keep perpetuating these hateful divisions. I understand that historically, the vast majority of oppressors have been cis (allegedly) straight men, and in the US and Europe they have been white as well. So for some it feels cathartic to lash out against groups that resemble their oppressors. Hurt people want to hurt others. As long as we perpetuate the cycle the same mistakes will keep repeating. But it's also important to remember that anyone can be an oppressor. Peter Thiel is gay and leading the world into technofascism. Look up a list of the world's richest person and yes, there's a lot of white dude at the very top but if you scroll down a little bit you'll find find Jensen Huang, Carlos Slim, and tons more non-white people. The women of the Walton and Koch families.
Progressives keep asking why they are losing elections, why so many young men are falling into incel or alpha male culture. There's a lot of complicated reasons for that, but shit like this certainly isn't helping.
It's especially disheartening to look through the profiles of some people here who are arguing in favor of this sexism. Because most of the people here I agree with 99% of what they post and comment.
Imagine this was a microagression about any other identity group. Imagine some asshole joking about how Asians are bad drivers to a Chinese person. Imagine that Chinese person gets offended, and you tell them "it's really hard for me to take you seriously".
I don't have any emotional trauma about this. I was raised exposed to a certain amount of toxic masculinity, and as I grew older and strive to become a better person I had to un-learn some bad habits. I didn't just memorize what words were offensive or not, but gave a lot of thought and educated myself into WHY they were offensive. The word "mansplaining" alone is mild, but what it's doing is singling put a specific identity group, then generally associating a negative connotation to the whole group. It's offensive, it's bad, and it should not be perpetuated.
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It is used much more freely than that. I agree that it's a problem when it actually happens, but I'd argue the accurate use of the term is not the typical one.
I agree that it's not always used accurately. I read your other responses and I honestly used to have the same beliefs as you, but I really tried to observe and listen openly the past few years and it shifted my perspective.
Mansplaining is a real problem. If you try to observe social interactions in detail, you'll notice it more and more often, you'll even catch yourself doing it. A lot of men really talk very differently to women than other men.
When so many women come out and talk about this issue, they're not all wrong. I find it kind of ironic that a lot of times, they're dismissed because men feel the urge to explain and tell them they're over-reacting.
Sidenote as a response to one of your other replies: I believe that the way the message is perceived is more important than the intent of the message. My intent with this reply is to help you try to think and observe this issue more openly. If it is perceived as attacking your beliefs and putting you on the defensive, then it obviously wasn't the right message to get through to you. I don't mean to be condescending, but I'm sure these same words may be condescending to some people. I'm just not the right person to get through to those people on this issue.
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Bit of a difference between "mansplaining" and the other terms in that the other terms mention the target of the action, leaving the actor ambiguous. Anyone could be anti-semitic or bash gay people. Mansplaining is a term specifically coined to say that only men can perform condescending infodumps. What's worse, nowadays it's often used just for men explaining things they're not sure if the other person knows. Some of us are also neurodivergent and have trouble picking up even fairly obvious social cues. I know it's a problem for me with ADHD and I know there's also "tism infodumps". Both disorders affect women too (and ADHD in women is underdiagnosed), but I've never heard "womansplaining" used as a term, nor do I think it would be appropriate. It'd be a hella sexist term.
I'm sure there's quite a few men out there who legitimately are so condescending, they feel they have to explain basic things to "dumb women". But I'm willing to bet most cases of "mansplaining" are some guy being an idiot and missing hints from the other party in the conversation, as well as just misjudging what is common knowledge and what isn't.
It doesn't help that women are just more polite and more likely to let you finish talking even when they know everything lol
It doesn't help that women are just more polite and more likely to let you finish talking even when they know everything lol
I was agreeing with you sooo heavily until this last paragraph. This is a biased generalization of women, and arguably an implied contrast to men.
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So when my ex-husband first went to vet tech school they, at some point, learned about menstruation. He proceeded to explain to me, a middle aged woman, how periods work, lol.
So your ex-husband was an asshole. Cool story, but the world is full of condescending assholes of all kinds and polite people of all kinds.
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"Mansplaining" is describing something sexist. It describes a real phenomenon that is necessarily gendered.
It's not sexist for the same reason terms like "anti-semitism" or "gay bashing" aren't prejudiced. They're descriptive of a real thing that happens.
Terminology like this can help women navigate problems that men don't have. If you don't see the value in it, maybe that's because you've never experienced that problem.
I don't know...my wife wifesplains things to me...assuming I'm a toddler and I'm not loading the dishwasher optimally; despite me knowing how to run computational fluid dynamics software and being aware of water flow optimiztion.
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My partner has taught/trained me to ask "would you like to hear more?" before I info-dump on him.
Example:
Me: "at work today I've been playing around with configuration settings for Primo VE, specifically the search scopes... Um... would you like to hear more?"Response: "I'm glad you have an interesting problem at work and no, no thank you."
The problem with this, and it's a serious one, is that gives them the opportunity to say no.
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In her mind she views the man as being condescending. In her mind she believes she knows better. So she's using the term correctly.
Now to be clear, I'm not saying it is mansplaining. Nor am I saying the man shouldn't be doing it in that scenario.
That's my point. It's being used far too liberally. I'm not saying they don't feel justified in using it, I'm saying that the standard being applied is far too low, and it shuts down legitimate communication. It has the built in defense of delegitimizing any attempts at clarification, because obviously the mansplainer is just mansplaining how he isn't mansplaining.
To go back to my analogy:
Would you likewise agree that a man would be justified in accusing a woman, with an accurate and valid complaint, of womancomplaining simply because he felt she was exaggerating? And couldn't he then go on to deflect any clarification she offers as further womancomplaining?
I'm not saying these people don't feel like they're using their terms correctly, I'm saying that it shuts down communication and accelerates the weaponization of accusation. It contributes to the gender divide, and has certainly helped to nudge men towards man-o-sphere radicalization.
I don't mean to address any of your points with this reply, I just want to point out that men regularly accuse women of "womancomplaining" or "being too emotional" or "being hysterical." A lot of women were lobotomised because of this kind of thing.
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In her mind she views the man as being condescending. In her mind she believes she knows better. So she's using the term correctly.
Now to be clear, I'm not saying it is mansplaining. Nor am I saying the man shouldn't be doing it in that scenario.
That's my point. It's being used far too liberally. I'm not saying they don't feel justified in using it, I'm saying that the standard being applied is far too low, and it shuts down legitimate communication. It has the built in defense of delegitimizing any attempts at clarification, because obviously the mansplainer is just mansplaining how he isn't mansplaining.
To go back to my analogy:
Would you likewise agree that a man would be justified in accusing a woman, with an accurate and valid complaint, of womancomplaining simply because he felt she was exaggerating? And couldn't he then go on to deflect any clarification she offers as further womancomplaining?
I'm not saying these people don't feel like they're using their terms correctly, I'm saying that it shuts down communication and accelerates the weaponization of accusation. It contributes to the gender divide, and has certainly helped to nudge men towards man-o-sphere radicalization.
You say that's your point but,
Would you likewise agree that a man would be justified in accusing a woman, with an accurate and valid complaint, of womancomplaining simply because he felt she was exaggerating?
I've made it extremely clear, multiple times that I am not commenting on whether I believe anything to actually be mansplaining. By your definition of how people should use your hypothetical example term, the person in your example would be using it correctly.
I haven't been discussing whether I think it's a good term or bad term, that's a different and unrelated topic, I am only talking about whether people "use it differently" now than they used to.
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Right, so a man talking to a woman in the same field shouldn't explain what is basic in their field. That is mansplaining. Mansplaining is contextual.
Basic to who, the man or the woman? How does one know what another deems basic? What appears basic to you is not likely to be so for me, and the converse of this is also likely true.
Better said that mansplaining is a post-hoc label applied to an event with a presumption of intent on the speaking party made. One can liken it to "are you looking at me pal?", but more socially acceptable.
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So your ex-husband was an asshole. Cool story, but the world is full of condescending assholes of all kinds and polite people of all kinds.
Right, just an example of the behavior of note in action. Correct, he was also a condescending asshole. I think those are prerequisites.
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Dropping this gem here:
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So taking up unnecessary public space is something particular to men? Do all men do this, or just only men?
Or are we gendering bad behavior to win internet points?
Trans woman who pays a bit more attention to mannerisms than most people, both in men and women.
- Yes, it's a real thing
- It's at least 90% men, and I'm being generous
- It's not most men that do it (especially in the sillier ways)
- Size matters not
Picture a teenager in black sweatpants and a hoodie, on his own in a bus. That's the most common I think. It's generally men who try to project an image of strong masculinity or coolness. They don't really do it with other people because it's silly. It might be an unconscious thing, idk. It still looks stupid. It's mostly men because it's a masculinity thing.
It's great if you don't do it, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if you didn't. But there very much is a type of guy who does it. And there is no common type of woman for that specific behavior.
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It doesn't help that women are just more polite and more likely to let you finish talking even when they know everything lol
I was agreeing with you sooo heavily until this last paragraph. This is a biased generalization of women, and arguably an implied contrast to men.
Maybe it's just the people I know? Could even just be the upbringing in a formerly soviet nation, it used to be pretty socially conservative in many ways here. Younger people are starting to break out of that pattern luckily. All I know is, in my generation and older ones, on average, guys tend to be more loud and in your face, more likely to interrupt you while talking.
