Then they will ask why nobody wants to use their payment cards
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If someone steals your debit card, they can directly take money out of your account. With credit cards, there's a buffer between the product and the bank account, and it makes it easier to stop fraud
I've had my debit card information stolen before. My bank knew before I did, cancelled the fraudulent charges, and refunded my money without any action on my part. Doesn't seem like a credit card would have been any advantage in my [admittedly anecdotal] case.
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Benefits of centralization: Someone can counteract harmful interactions.
Drawbacks of centralization: Someone can decide legitimate interactions are harmful.
It does suck when the “harmful interaction management system” goes haywire. But I’m not sure it sucks enough that I’d rather simply not have one.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Yeah it's a personal level of comfort sort of thing. Some people value one side of the equation while some people value the other side. Strong case for vendors accepting both cards and crypto instead of just one.
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If someone steals your debit card, they can directly take money out of your account. With credit cards, there's a buffer between the product and the bank account, and it makes it easier to stop fraud
Debit cards typically have PIN numbers.
I know these can be defeated in various ways, but its not usually as simple as, just steal someone's card.
Also, you can just go to your bank or credit union, call them, report online or w/e: Hey, my card got stolen, these txns are fraud.
Might not be as streamlined or as fast as a payment challenge with a credit card, but its not that much worse.
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except for the insane fluctuations in currency value and the immense inefficiency of the whole system and all the fraud even in "stable" coins and all the lack of regulation
wrote last edited by [email protected]-
"Insane fluctuations in currency value": Someone who makes most of their payments in crypto is likely doing it with a stablecoin, which is a cryptocurrency pegged 1-to-1 to a fiat currency, like the US dollar. So, no more wild fluctuations than the 10% decrease in value the USD has experienced over the past year. Speaking of which, the 100% increase in BTC value this past year certainly is wild, but I don't think any of it's holders would consider that a problem.
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"Immense inefficiency of the whole system": If you consider the US military to be the value security for the world's dominant fiat currency [which you would be foolish not to] Proof of Work security is a large improvement on energy use. Proof of Stake security, which most stablecoins use these days, doesn't really use any energy worth noting.
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"All the fraud": Credit cards suffer far more fraud than crypto. Perhaps that's a product of their wider adoption, but that's where 99% of the fraud is happening.
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"The lack of regulation": One of the hottest topics in US congress over the past several years, for both Biden and Trump regimes, has been crypto regulation. It's a moving space right now but it seems myopic to call lack of regulation when it's certainly going to be a moot point by 2028.
Sorry I don't really consider myself to be some crypto warrior but I do really dislike these decade+ old off the cuff relatively low-information talking points. This is not how you argue against crypto, if you want a strong argument against crypto come at it from an explicitly anti-capitalist lens and accuse it of accelerating global financialization, which it is, like a gas can poured on a campfire. Go big or go home. If you don't oppose capitalism and you're just looking for a better money, crypto is not your boogeyman.
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A credit card, in the US, has a transaction fee for the vendor, 1-3% of the purchase price, sometimes with a flat few cents fee on top.
The consumer has no transaction fee, but does pay interest (around 28% annually) if they don't pay off the full balance every month (if they do pay it in full at the end of the month, there is no interest charge). Usually there will be a 1-2% cash back for the consumer as well.
Some credit cards also have an annual fee for the consumer. These generally have higher cash back rewards and higher vendor transaction fees than those that don't.
Don't forget secured cards, which require an upfront deposit, and cards with regular monthly or annual fees, simply for having them, regardless of whether you use them or not.
Thats the kind of credit cards you get offered if you are bad with credit cards (cough most Americans are cough thats kinda the whole business model cough), or, if someone steals your identity and you either don't have enough time or money or otherwise can't sufficiently prove to credit reporting agencies / banks that that is what happened.
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Honestly, what's the point of a credit card? Why don't people mostly use debit cards? It gets just directly wire transferred from your account. No sort of junk fees or monthly subscription needed. Genuine Question.
My debit card is a master card.
They still need to go through a payment processor, using a debit instead of credit card isn't really the solution to the current problems.
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I'm glad we're spending the equivalent of a couple dozen million households of electricity on it
wrote last edited by [email protected]Meanwhile the US military's energy budget eclipses global crypto mining essentially to maintain petrodollar dominance and American residents pay for it.
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The lack of regulation is pretty much a goal. When a government controls or regulate a currency, your liberty is attacked.
Fraud? What are you talking about?
How is the system inefficient though? Compared to what? I don't believe it's fair to compare a decentralized system to a centralized one. Lemmy is much more expensive to run per user than Reddit for example
Fluctuations suck indeed, though they vary, it depends of the crypto
The lack of regulation is pretty much a goal. When a government controls or regulate a currency, your liberty is attacked.
If your argument hinges on avoiding regulation, then it's guaranteed to fail. Having oversight is not a bad thing.
The idea of positive self-regulation, especially of a currency in a capitalist system, is pure fantasy.
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A dollar in fees is a dollar more than with fiat for the person paying. That and do you expect enough normal people to learn about L2s and chains to make it worthwhile for Valve or whoever to implement support for anything besides the main chains of 2-3 major cryptos and stablecoins on ethereum main?
wrote last edited by [email protected]I mean either you care enough about payment processor censorship to go around them or you don't. If the extra dollar isn't worth it to you then that is what it is.
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So then don't carry 500 in cash then. You only need enough cash in your wallet to cover the expenses you might encounter in a single day. And having cash on you doesn't mean you can't have cards too in case you need more money
wrote last edited by [email protected]So less king and more part of a council?
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People who use credit cards don't pay the transaction fee. If the product is priced at 10 Stanly nickle they only play 10 Stanley nickle. Lot of credit cards also offer cash back so people might get 1-5% back depending on what the category for the month is.
When it comes to transaction fees you are going to have to sell the vender on it than the consumer since they are the one paying.
Oh you're definitely paying the credit card fee too, but since it's the vendor who gets billed it's just priced into the product. That's why the product costs 10 Stanly nickle instead of 9 Stanly nickle.
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Oh sure, now Lemmy wants to embrace crypto instead of calling it a scam, all because your porn was threatened.
I had to put up with so much abuse here just because I always say positive things about crypto. You people suck.
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The transaction fee is not paid by the consumer (directly), and lord knows sellers are not going to lower prices based on payment method.
Sadly, this is probably true. Unless they're trying to steer customers away from more troublesome payment providers.
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Benefits of centralization: Someone can counteract harmful interactions.
Drawbacks of centralization: Someone can decide legitimate interactions are harmful.
It does suck when the “harmful interaction management system” goes haywire. But I’m not sure it sucks enough that I’d rather simply not have one.
wrote last edited by [email protected]"someone can decide you have zero dollars"
free speech until your bank account goes away
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Yep. Just because one side is bad, it doesn't mean the other is any good.
Cryptocurrency is still dependent of a pyramid scheme and criminals-enabling. Credit card companies are still a private owned government branch with no concern for human rights and criminals-enabling.
more and more good people are being called criminals
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Oh sure, now Lemmy wants to embrace crypto instead of calling it a scam, all because your porn was threatened.
I had to put up with so much abuse here just because I always say positive things about crypto. You people suck.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Bro. I feel you. But you have to embrace the fact that Crypto is both a blessing and a curse. People certainly use it in scammy ways - but they do the same with dollars and physical currency.
So people hyperfixate on how crypto can hurt them instead of how they can be helped.
Crypto 100% can replace banks, savings accounts, the stock market, and pretty much every centralized financial institution that has already been captured by billionaire interests.
But you aren't going to get people to hear that if you just complain about them fixating on the bad stuff.
Talk about what's good about Crypto enough, and people will definitley come around.
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I've had my debit card information stolen before. My bank knew before I did, cancelled the fraudulent charges, and refunded my money without any action on my part. Doesn't seem like a credit card would have been any advantage in my [admittedly anecdotal] case.
Banks can, but they're not legally obligated to. With a credit card they are. (US)
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If someone steals your debit card, they can directly take money out of your account. With credit cards, there's a buffer between the product and the bank account, and it makes it easier to stop fraud
It's not fraud, it's interest.
If you use a debit card and can't cover a transaction, it just doesn't go through. If you have a credit card then the bank pays and now you owe them, and they'll charge you extra for that privilege.
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Honestly, what's the point of a credit card? Why don't people mostly use debit cards? It gets just directly wire transferred from your account. No sort of junk fees or monthly subscription needed. Genuine Question.
I buy stuff for work with my personal card and I've made probably thousands of dollars from the cash back. Even on my regular cards I get a couple hundred back off of stuff I normally buy.
There's other benefits too like using points to buy plane tickets, fancy lobbies in the airport with free food, etc.
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Bro. I feel you. But you have to embrace the fact that Crypto is both a blessing and a curse. People certainly use it in scammy ways - but they do the same with dollars and physical currency.
So people hyperfixate on how crypto can hurt them instead of how they can be helped.
Crypto 100% can replace banks, savings accounts, the stock market, and pretty much every centralized financial institution that has already been captured by billionaire interests.
But you aren't going to get people to hear that if you just complain about them fixating on the bad stuff.
Talk about what's good about Crypto enough, and people will definitley come around.
What's so frustrating about it is that every argument against crypto can also apply to fiat currency. The only one that holds water is the waste of electricity argument, which is why it's important to invest in Proof of Stake coins like Etherium. So even that argument is a weak one at best. I just don't understand the hate.
