Good Rhino

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100g of beef (15% fat) has about 26 grams of protein.

Per 100 g, hemp seeds contain more than 30 g of protein.

Cooked edamame has like 11.

So yeah, there's honestly no reason to think you can't get enough protein as a vegan. However in this meme there's quite a difference, the rhino isn't eating hemp seeds. The catch for him is he needs to eat a lot and all the time. Just like cows.

But humans don't, because you don't need to get all your protein from grass and hay.

Am not a vegan myself though

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30 years of constant eating and many accidental bugs ingested.

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These calculations always ignore bioavailability rates.

This and iron are the most miscalculated (though at least iron can be raised via adding acids before consumption).

You'll get about 75% of those 26g from beef, only about 20% from the hemp seeds (much higher if hulled and ground).

Really though, vegetarians get the most protein the most easily, since both whey and eggs are over 90% absorbed.

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You'll get that 75%... if you cook the beef. And if you're just gulping down large raw chunks, even less.

You know what you can also do with hemp seeds?

Cook them.

Or just mill it into flour and then use for whatever. The resulting flour will be >33% protein.

Hemp flour has good protein bioavailability, with ground hemp seed protein showing digestibility of 91–98%.

But even so, your original "you'll get about 20% of that" is just not right.

The results showed that the whole hemp seed presented 24% of proteins with an 84.1%−86.2% of digestibility, the dehulled hemp seed showed 35.9% of proteins and 83.5%−92.1% of digestibility, while the hemp seed meal contained 40.7 % of proteins with 90.8%−97.5% of digestibility.

Whole hemp seeds are about 24% protein and ~85% bioavailability

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/nutrition/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.1039180/full

Idk where you're inventing your figures from

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but OP used a pic of animals. clearly not a vegan pic.

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Cool, so you... Just proved what I said? Congrats.

You didn't originally mention hemp flour, but you're right, I confused protein completeness with how much is absorbed.

However, you reminded me of another issue with vegetable proteins - protein completeness. Even though raw beef would drop absorption to around 50%, you'd get everything you need.

With vegetable proteins, you need to have variety and in higher amounts to make sure you get everything.

And I've only used beef as an example for meat because you did. Fish is much higher, and also complete. A few cubes of raw salmon are easier to eat than a mixture of different vegetables in terms of quantity.

But either way, none of that negates my final point: that vegetarianism would be the best option in terms of body building, because eggs have the highest absorption and are protein complete. Literally a single egg can meet the daily requirement, with the rest being staples for calories and fruits/vegetables for vitamins. For body building, a couple eggs will give plenty of protein.

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"You'll only get about 20% bioavailability from hemp seeds".

I showed you that's incorrect, by some 60% at least.

And I also didn't mention whether the beef if minced or cooked.

However, you reminded me of another issue with vegetable proteins - protein completeness

Mmm

Sure

Come up with that yourself, once again?

Hemp protein has a balanced amino acid profile. All nine essential amino acids are contained in hemp protein (histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, valine).

Again. I'm not a vegan, nor am I taking any sort of political stance here.

I'm just pointing out how ridiculously archaic the rhetoric is they you can't get get swole with vegan protein.

For body building hemp flour/powder is just as good if not better than chugging eggs. Depends on other factors of any given person's diet though.

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Plenty of top endurance athletes are vegan. For one, runner Scott Jurek, seven time winner of 100-mile Western States week.

Personally, this week I biked 152 miles and placed in my age group in a 5k running race. I eat plant-based but don’t count protein grams. My take is that I eat about twice as much to cover my calorie expenditures, so I get twice as much protein. It doesn’t have to be hard.

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Was thinking in the context of body building when I wrote that.

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Aren't you technically a vegan as you're typing up a post, as long as you aren't eating any meat while you do it? Almost all vegans used to eat meat at some point - your "used to eat meat" was just a bit more recently is all.

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Wheat is the number one source of protein in the world. Almost all food has some protein except for like fruits.

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I'm usually wearing my leather underpants so no

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I'm definitely misremembering something, so I'll have to reread the literature again. Although part of me then will instead just mauve choose to not comment on the subject and look it up much later when the transplant fails years later.

What I do remember, is there was some issue with hemp protein alone, because my labs were doing bad when I was on dialysis (and was trying a safer way to be vegan while on it - which is difficult due to potassium) and I had to switch back to eggs. It could be the amounts of certain amino acids of the 9 were too low for me. Whether this was because of dialysis or veganism I probably don't remember anymore, as it's been about 5 years since I last reviewed this information, and yours is likely much more up to date and definitely more accurate than my memory.

Either way, now I'm vegan 5/7 days a week (in the summer - getting a variety of fruits and vegetables affordably in the summer is much easier than the winter here in Finland for perhaps obvious reasons), since I really missed eating many fruits and certain vegetables (again, which was limiting because of potassium).

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If gym bros were philosophically opposed to hyper processed foods, whey protein (and all sorts of other animal-derived protein supplements) wouldn't be as popular as they are. Whey used to be a nearly free byproduct of the dairy industry, and now is instead a key ingredient in supplement powders and bars and also processed food manufacturing for high protein versions of things like waffles and coffee drinks and even candy.

I'm a pretty serious lifter and I get most of my protein from a combination of legumes (probably 3-6 servings per day), processed dairy like cheeses and yogurts (probably 4-6 servings per day), and grains (probably 5-10 servings per day). I eat meat almost every day, but the actual macronutrient profile of my daily intake shows that most of my protein is coming from non-meat sources.

Hell, a typical hot dog on a bun has half of its protein in the bun (about 5g) and half the protein in the hot dog (about 5g).

It's not hard to get enough protein from plant sources. Almost every civilization in history was build around a staple grain and a staple legume, which generally provides sufficient protein to cover people's needs. If you're trying to do more, like lift heavy weights, meat makes it somewhat easier to satisfy the higher protein requirements, but industrial processing is really the cheat code, whether we're talking dairy or isolated protein from crops.

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You're spot on.

Too much of the bro science passed around in the lifting/fitness community is based on misremembered or misunderstood details of studies, that people have extrapolated well beyond the scope of that study.

It is true that plant proteins are less bioavailable to humans when eaten, compared to animal proteins. But even the slightest amount of processing will go a long way towards improving the bioavailability of either animal or plant proteins, and closes the gap significantly.

So when comparing what people actually eat, it's not hard to get enough protein from vegan sources like bread, pasta, etc.

A 200 lb (91 kg) man who wants to get the ideal 165 g of protein on 2800 calories per day can go a long way by simply eating a peanut butter sandwich. At 4g protein per 80 calorie slice of bread, and 16 g protein per 2 fl oz/380 calorie portion of peanut butter, that's 24 g protein in a 540 calorie sandwich. That's 14.5% of the ideal daily protein intake in 19.3% of the ideal calorie intake, only slightly below track.

Actually seeking out high protein per calorie foods like peas (8.6 g protein for 134 calories serving or 6.4 g per 100 calories), broccoli (2.4 g protein for 35 calories or 6.8 g per 100), or beans (15 g protein for 225 calories for 6.7 per 100) makes it easy to hit the total protein goal without exceeding the calorie target. Plenty of those are better than 80/20 ground beef (19g per 280 calories for 6.8g per 100) or hot dogs (5.6 g per 155 calorie serving for 3.6g per 100).

The man I described as aiming for 165g of protein per 2800 calorie day needs to average out to 5.9 g per 100 calories. Some of the foods that exceed that break-even threshold are versatile enough to be included in many meals.

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A peanut butter sandwich is about 24g of protein, 540 calories. 5 of those would hit the goal with a 2700 calorie total.

In contrast, a hot dog on a bun would be about 11g of protein (5.6 from the hot dog, 5.1 from the bun) and 300 calories (155 from the hot dog, 145 from the bun). Eating two of those would put you slightly behind the peanut butter sandwich in reaching protein intake goals without exceeding the daily calorie target.

If you're very active and need a lot of calories to fuel your activity, getting enough protein is easy. If you're trying to get enough protein on a cut with a low calorie target, it's much harder but can be done with either supplementation (protein powder, etc.) or choosing certain processed foods (low fat dairy, tofu), and avoiding a lot of foods that just don't fit the goals (whether plant or animal derived).

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Right I conceded this point elsewhere. That being said I did have a period where I was a whole foods zealot and it was very hard to reach protein goals even eating meat. I was on a bulk so I was basically eating every 2 hours, but the worst thing was how much cooking was involved.

I now supplement because of that but I can still reach 130gs or so of protein some days on whole foods only. But I don’t know that I could do that with a vegan only diet without supplements. Which why I highlighted how difficult it is.

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I was playing around with the numbers in another comment, and concluded that someone like me, with a target consumption or 165 g of protein and 2800 calories, simply needed to average out to 5.9g of protein per 100 calories. Several whole plant foods are above this:

Peas: 6.4 g protein per 100 calories
Beans: 6.7 g per 100
Lentils: 7.8 g per 100
Mushrooms: 7.7 g per 100
Broccoli: 6.8 g per 100

And while looking at fermented cabbage in particular, that's actually got some really good numbers, presumably because the microbes preferentially metabolize the sugars and carbs:

Kimchi: 7.4 g per 100
Sauerkraut: 4.8 g per 100

The more active one is, and the higher the calorie needs, the easier it is to hit the target of .78g protein per pound of bodyweight while still hitting overall caloric needs. It's the restricted cutting diets that make it hardest.

Then again, easy for me to talk because I'm always hungry and have never had trouble eating enough. Even still, though, I rely heavily on dairy for my protein goals. It's the easiest way to plan out macros.

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Iirc the hard part is that not all protein is the same, and your body needs a variety to actually be able to use it which is near impossible to get solely from unprocessed plant based foods. So, modern chemistry to the rescue.

(This is what I remember from like an hour of research a few months back so correct me if I'm wrong)

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You were this close to writing a perfectly readable and useful post and then you dunked it with the ".78g per POUND of body weight".

I'm still proud of you for using metric almost the entire way, but come on! Can't we just get rid of the rest of the useless system as well?

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Good Rhino