Men who feel like fully functional people, how did you get there?
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Accept your role as a man.
Most men are confused about how to live because they've been conditioned to believe that men and women are equal in all things.
Ok, Peterson.
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For masculine identifying folks, what were the things you did (or had happen to you) that you feel helped you transition into adulthood and find fulfilling community?
Statistics suggest that a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
Lovely friends, lively work, and having to routinely deal with people who have their shit together even less than me :).
That, plus philosophy and LSD. Though rarely at the same time
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Getting into philosophy and ethics. Contemporary Stoicism in particular is very freeing and empowering. Theres this concept in Stoicism (and Buddhism) of "dichotomy of control" where some things can't be controled like thoughts emerging or you dying but you can control your reaction to all of that.
Another concept from Stoicism that relates to community is the idea of "festival" which is basically being intentionally mindful of how awesome crowds are - the fact that a diverse group of people gather together for some shared activity or just to hang out is enough for you to enjoy it!
The chief task in life is simply this: to identify and separate matters so that I can say clearly to myself which are externals not under my control, and which have to do with the choices I actually control. Where then do I look for good and evil? Not to uncontrollable externals, but within myself to the choices that are my own…
— Epictetus, Discourses
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For masculine identifying folks, what were the things you did (or had happen to you) that you feel helped you transition into adulthood and find fulfilling community?
Statistics suggest that a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
I feel like an adult but I don't waste time worrying about whether I measure up to some arbitrary definition of manhood. Had a recent conversation with some friends where I said I didn't identify very strongly with my gender and they thought I was manifesting it quite clearly. Maybe the secret is not to worry about it?
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I think they just meant cishet men. Unless the language changed again. Its nearly impossible to bring up the concept without having people jumping down your throat about it.
"Masculine identifying" generally opens the table to trans men and Non-binary Trans masculine people. Basically anyone who aligns themselves with and finds comfort in expressing masculinity.
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For masculine identifying folks, what were the things you did (or had happen to you) that you feel helped you transition into adulthood and find fulfilling community?
Statistics suggest that a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Mostly realizing that masculinity really is what you make of it. It doesn't need to be aspirational and probably shouldn't be. You are a man regardless of whether you fit anyone's expectations of that or not and the more people you find to become friends with who accept this radical fact the more comfortable you are to express masculinity without boundaries. Being able to be fully real without pretending to like or hate anything because you are "supposed to". Being able to express a full range of emotion without fear and talk about it occasionally. Not being held to a standard of sacrifice of the self for meaningless prizes which hold no lasting value.
Secondly - sometimes comfort is a trap. We seek comfort as a natural instinct and to have it sometimes is a good thing... But to find it and expect to live in it all the time makes your world smaller. Over time you lose the functionality that allows you to make changes and do the things that you need or want to. Pushing out little by little into the uncomfortable slowly expands the space and duration in which you can be functional and comfortable. Doing things you don't like, make you self conscious or put you temporarily in an environment that tires you out is training your mind to be tougher and more resilient. Go without comfort sometimes, treat it as exercise or nessisary medicine. Self-care is one thing but self-coddle will make whatever you tell yourself about not being able to handle things true. It is a sedentary lifestyle of the mind. Find a medium between points of comfort and vistas of discomfort to venture into and you will find less things hold you back, more stories you will have to tell and the more life you will feel like you have lived and the more rewarding your times of comfort become.
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For masculine identifying folks, what were the things you did (or had happen to you) that you feel helped you transition into adulthood and find fulfilling community?
Statistics suggest that a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
I've realized that in my society, more or less, being human in general is worthless. Or more accurately, a person is as valuable as their latest income statement. I don't evaluate any person this way. Therefore I refuse to evaluate myself this way.
People's judgments are endless and contradictory. Because of this, many of us make their best effort to blend into the crowd, trying to conceal every part of themselves that doesn't fit into the norms. I've always taken this to mean that I should be true to myself. This makes a lot of people angry, but that just makes it easier to tell who should I avoid.
A few years ago I started a community that has now outgrown me. I made a few close (mostly female) friends, and as an introvert that's enough for me. I'm now more focused on strengthening those ties, keeping a door open for others who'd like to be part of my life.
In general, I try to live for my values, avoiding all ideologies, belief systems, political systems and other -isms. The more I go into this process, I'm finding my newer relationships more stable and fulfilling, even if not always easy to come by.
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For masculine identifying folks, what were the things you did (or had happen to you) that you feel helped you transition into adulthood and find fulfilling community?
Statistics suggest that a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Just help people. Volunteer, help a neighbor carry groceries, pick up garbage on the side of the road. Do them for the act of doing them without reward or recognition. Just because it needs to be done. Do it earnestly and everything else falls into place.
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For masculine identifying folks, what were the things you did (or had happen to you) that you feel helped you transition into adulthood and find fulfilling community?
Statistics suggest that a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
The first thing was growing a beard. For a man aged say 18-25, having a beard makes people treat you like an adult, while being clean shaven you are treated as an adolescent. No I’m not joking.
Second for me was financial independence. Even a stupid things like exiting the cellular family plan.
Third I think is hobbies. When you gain self confidence in your skill in something you love, even if it’s just hiking or metal detecting, you may care less about others opinion of you.
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The first thing was growing a beard. For a man aged say 18-25, having a beard makes people treat you like an adult, while being clean shaven you are treated as an adolescent. No I’m not joking.
Second for me was financial independence. Even a stupid things like exiting the cellular family plan.
Third I think is hobbies. When you gain self confidence in your skill in something you love, even if it’s just hiking or metal detecting, you may care less about others opinion of you.
1000% agree on the beard. also, the nicer kept it is the better people will treat you.
if you have an ugly face, grow a beard, maintain it. you'll get respect. no joke.
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For masculine identifying folks, what were the things you did (or had happen to you) that you feel helped you transition into adulthood and find fulfilling community?
Statistics suggest that a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
The biggest thing that helped me was art. I've played music most of my life, and made the decision to move out to a city with a great music scene 4 years ago where I knew nobody. It took me 3 years of exploring open mic communities and such for me to finally find the one for me. Built up an amazing friend group from there and I feel so emotionally and artistically fulfilled now! I was so lonely those first 3 years, but the second I found my people it was night and day. I think the best thing everyone can do is hone in on a hobby you love and connect with the community surrounding it if you can, sometimes the hobby can be enough too though!
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For masculine identifying folks, what were the things you did (or had happen to you) that you feel helped you transition into adulthood and find fulfilling community?
Statistics suggest that a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
My solution to this has been to join a hobby that happens to check off a lot of criteria
- Physical exercise
- Interesting people
- Teaching and mentorship, with opportunities on both sides of that fence
- Camraderie
- Promotion of positive masculinity
For me that's the SCA, a medieval reenactment organization. But my local area has a lot of good people in the organization and unfortunately not every area is filled with great people. Plus, it's not everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine.
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I think they just meant cishet men. Unless the language changed again. Its nearly impossible to bring up the concept without having people jumping down your throat about it.
probably confusing it with hypermasculinity
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The first thing was growing a beard. For a man aged say 18-25, having a beard makes people treat you like an adult, while being clean shaven you are treated as an adolescent. No I’m not joking.
Second for me was financial independence. Even a stupid things like exiting the cellular family plan.
Third I think is hobbies. When you gain self confidence in your skill in something you love, even if it’s just hiking or metal detecting, you may care less about others opinion of you.
Here's me unable to grow a beard in my 40s
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For masculine identifying folks, what were the things you did (or had happen to you) that you feel helped you transition into adulthood and find fulfilling community?
Statistics suggest that a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
I pretended I was functional, and eventually I forgot I was pretending.
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I don't know about fully functional, but I think there's 3 things I would say are key to not being miserable all the time:
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Be kind. It's not in everyone's nature, but the results are so rewarding. Just stop to think, is what I'm doing right now causing someone else pain or discomfort? How could I reverse that? Don't let your bad day ruin someone else's.
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Be purposeful. Find things to strive for. Small goals are fine, and sometimes things take a long time, but don't lose sight of where you want to be. Dont be manipulative or treat it like a zero sum game either, your success doesn't need to come at the cost of someone else's. Winning with your friends is even better than winning alone.
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Be forgiving. Most importantly to yourself. Failure is not the enemy of success. Self hatred will destroy any chance you have at happiness, many of us are taught at a young age to treat our own failings as horrendous sins that we must mentally self flagellate for. This is the one of the hardest things to overcome, but every step along the way will give your mind a little more room to find peace.
I found myself in a place where I was terribly miserable, isolated, and regretful. I didn't know it at the time but it was the gradual application of the above which helped pull me out of that place.
This is excellent advice. Being kind and forgiving changes your life
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I pretended I was functional, and eventually I forgot I was pretending.
Just like that one story in which a man forgets he has alzheimer's and starts remembering again
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Here's me unable to grow a beard in my 40s
Fellow beardless man. I started "shaving" using clippers with no guard. It keeps a constant 5 O'clock shadow that eventually evens out.
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For masculine identifying folks, what were the things you did (or had happen to you) that you feel helped you transition into adulthood and find fulfilling community?
Statistics suggest that a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I’m not advocating for any of these, but my journey towards feeling secure in a male adult identity was probably:
- Good set of male friends in high-school that I still keep in touch with (at 48). That was pure luck, I didn’t get to choose them ending up in my class.
- Joined the army at 18. Hard work but definitely forced me into a number of situations I wouldn’t otherwise have had to deal with and raised my personal confidence that the unknown was generally something that could be handled.
- Did the Landmark Forum early twenties. I do not recommend this to anyone but it did wonders for me.
- Through doing a bunch of shitty jobs learnt to apply for good jobs.
- Raised with high expectations. Parents weren’t jerks or unreasonable but they expected me to apply myself without ever nagging at me. Good parents is a huge hidden privilege.
- Met my wife at the right time and through sheer luck she turned out to be perfect.
In short: Mostly randomness, privilege and a bit of work. And when I say privilege I do not mean money. That we had not very much of.
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For masculine identifying folks, what were the things you did (or had happen to you) that you feel helped you transition into adulthood and find fulfilling community?
Statistics suggest that a large number of men feel isolated, unvalued by society, and dysfunctional, but it's not 100%.
Bit of an odd answer, but for me (and my wife), the last piece of the puzzle was really budgeting. The invisible, constant financial stress is a lot, and adds to that feeling of "pretending" when you're not even sure if buying groceries will cause a bill to bounce, let alone hanging out with friends who always seem to comfortably have the money to do whatever it is you're doing.
It's been several years now (early 30s, started budgeting in late 20s), it took us a while to figure it out and progress was slow, but I can "see the line" now, towards retirement, towards home ownership, we have no more credit card debt (just student loans left, which we're working on), and we budget "fun money" that I save up to make big purchases like a 7900XTX without any guilt or credit.
We're also having our first kid soon, and at least financially, I'm not stressed about it at all, which would've been impossible in our twenties. Getting our financials in hand and headed in the right direction has just done massive work in helping me feel like I know what I'm doing, and that our life is actually getting better rather than stuck in place.
