Do you feel sad for people born today?
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How about sparing them from a life of working constantly to have job insecurity, no social safety net, and a bullet for a retirement plan? Birth is cruelty.
I think you may just need to talk to somebody this comment is out of my depth.
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Renewables have actually been making enormous progress, at least wind and photovoltaic (which is by far the cheapest source of new large scale energy production). I assume that’s why our current dear leader is going so far out of his way to stifle them as much as possible. He’s just following the Project 2025 playbook from the Heritage Foundation, which seeks to preserve the failing US hegemony that is dependent on the petrodollar as the world reserve currency.
But I think you’re right about everything else, including how great my life is right now personally. I just see us on the precipice of doom, like Wile E. Coyote having not yet realized he has run off the cliff’s edge. I understand that it’s hard for a lot of people to project into the future and accept the doom. That requires both a broad understanding that most don’t possess and the nerve to look into the void.
I recently reached more peaceful acceptance about our impending climate and societal collapse after I read Cadillac Desert and realized that even without climate change our water needs are unsustainable and we’re heading for an agricultural collapse.
In the mean time I’m trying to participate in activities that I love and help my children to find activities they love. Might as well get some good times in.
Idk why you're down voted, I'm 100% with you there
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Okay and how does people having children automatically force them into wage slavery? Its not a forgone conclusion by any means. Your kid could be the kid who picks up the pieces of capitalism and forges it into an equitable society. We just don't know. So why give in? Why give up on these children before they've truly had their chance? As I said in another comment, you might not have them but children will continue to be born regardless. Might as well foster some hope and kindness. Like Gandalf said, do the little things that keep the darkness at bay.
wrote last edited by [email protected]So are you implying that you'd only have kids if you could ensure they'd be bourgeoisie, exploiting others for their own benefits?
I think the society fixing angle is naive. I sure wasn't that kid, I don't know anyone else who is, and now there's some kids who seem to be doing the opposite.
"Kindness" is weapons grade copium. Think of it instead like your average CFD bet or any other financial investment - first the fundamentals must be sound, then you invest, not the other way around - you wouldn't invest in a failing business just in case it could turn around, unless you're private equity and have other private equity firms lining up for your sucker special suite of bang-em-and-bin-em retirement home joints.
I've never seen hobbit/lord of rings and I don't watch or care for fantasy. You don't keep darkness at bay - you stare right into the void and grab it by the balls, then you invest.
::: spoiler .
/s
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Housing prices? That's your argument? That's your bleak outlook? Dude, up until relatively recently you couldn't have a baby without it dying or dying yourself. Common cold? Deceased. There are people alive today who are being murdered because their existence maddens someone and your argument is that your housing costs have gone up.
Get some perspective. Your life isn't that bad.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Housing prices are everything. We all die. Now or in 50 years barely makes a difference in the grand scheme of things. But imagine dying and your family can't even grieve because your dead carcass fell behind on rent and was tossed out in the trash by your slumlord to get in an Indian family of 6 for twice the rent in your tiny attic. That's life.
I am trans and people have threatened to murder me for my existence before I started passing. In both my country of origin and my current country of residence there's a concentrated institutional effort to effectively extinct people like me from public existence by various forms of lawfare and propagandistic fearmongering.
Don't get me wrong, the rightoids will come for me, and after that, they will come for you, too, that's just conservatism for ya, but when they do come, I'd rather meet them in my owned house, filled with guns and ammo, and maybe a nice pet dog by my side that I'd look after and let escape before shit hits the fan, rather than a rented flat I can't even hang a poster up in without incurring some fine or fee.
And if they don't come, a house is an asset, the asset, the only productive one in reach now that businesses aren't viable anymore thanks to landlord and digital feudal lord wealth extraction - it's retirement and it's everything, pensions wont be a thing by when I retire, and trust me being a minority with money is much better than being a minority without.
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I personally cringe when I hear a friend js having a kid. All I can think of is how bad theyre going to have it. Hell id definitely have been better off being born 20 years earlier, but these new kids are REALLY screwed unless they have super rich parents.
"Nothing new under the sun" I suppose!
I think that, no matter when you were born in history, there were trials and tribulations.
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Yeah, I don't get how people can think like this but not want nukes to take out everything. Like you're living this shit, too, if you are willing to keep living this shit, why do you assume it's a bad thing for anyone to bring someone else into it? Anti-natalism is pro-extinction from my pov.
Not that I have an issue with people taking themselves out of the gene pool or anything, I just find the position wildly inconsistent with anyone who wants to continue living themselves.
And to be clear, I mean specifically the "if you choose to have a kid, you are bad" position, I can understand "having kids is not for me, I don't want to do parenting".
wrote last edited by [email protected]Hey there, I’ll try to clear things up a bit. At this point in time, here’s a list of things going on in the world:
1.) Collapse of world democracies- the US is fascist now with several countries on their way. It’s a reasonable assumption that a child born today will experience less freedom than you ever have.
2.) Collapse of the environment. - The planet is becoming uninhabitable. 60% of insect species are gone. Temperatures are rising. There’s more than a few inferences that can be made from this…
3.) Collapse of the middle class - it kinda ties into #1, and a lot of people have seen this coming for a while too. We’re being split into an ownership class and a working class. If that divide continues growing (like graphs would indicate) we’re heading towards a neo-feudalist state. That’s not a pleasant experience for anyone other than those at the top. I’m not at the top, you probably aren’t either.
4.) Idiocracy Effect - the beginning part of idiocracy, where it’s explained that dumb people are popping out 10 kids while intelligent people are spending years planning their first. If you are one of the smart people, you’d be forcing a new version of yourself to live in a world with exponentially more dumb people than the world you live in today. If you’re one of the dumb people, well….
The last one doesn’t get a #, but I also have questions surrounding consent for existence. I won’t get into that because I don’t have a fully formulated opinion on that specific area yet. I’m still working it out for myself.
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Absolutely I do. And I don’t understand what makes a person think that bringing a new life into this disaster is a good idea.
Well, hopefully you at least feel thankful that so many of your ancestors brought children into a world much more filled with pain and suffering and death than today.
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What kind of numbers are you going after?
I mean, probably you want numbers to prove that climate change is changing politics and economics, etc. for the worse, or maybe just numbers for proving that climate change is real.
But both of these seem like such trivial information that I'm probably just guessing wrong. But because of that, I'd be curious to know: what kind of numbers did you mean?
I can probably help digging up some for you, but not if you just meant "prove that climate change exists". But, numbers proving that economy will suffer from climate change should be easy to find. (And I think you could just search for them yourself...)
The goal posts are just going to be moved if you produce anything with numbers on it.
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I think you may just need to talk to somebody this comment is out of my depth.
We’re all talking now. I don’t find that perspective to be one that equates uniquely to a depressed person. That perspective is relatively prevalent within this thread, but also somewhat prevalent within social circles that I find myself in.
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VERY specific people would have been better off born 20 years ago.
The vast majority of people would be better off today.
You can imagine in another 20 years that would be different, but almost everyone is better off today than they were 20 years ago, and they will be even better 20 years from now than today.
Specific groups may have a harder time in one time period or another, but society at large is getting better at the world scale over the long term. Hope still exists.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I was born over 40 years ago. I feel like there was a general consensus in the 80’s that kids being born then absolutely would be “better off” than their parents.
Reality is sinking in and we’re seeing that wasn’t the case for a lot of people.
The fact that questionability surrounding “if kids born today will be better off than their parents” even exists today seems to suggest that they will not.
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Well, hopefully you at least feel thankful that so many of your ancestors brought children into a world much more filled with pain and suffering and death than today.
I'm not, lmao. My life sucks. Wtf is with all the breeders here trying to justify their contributions to climate change!? There is immensely more pain and suffering in our immediate future than there was at any point in human history. We are literally looking at the end of humanity here.
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I think that, no matter when you were born in history, there were trials and tribulations.
Yes, but there were definitely parts of history where we looked towards the future and wanted to make something awesome. Where we were hopeful.
Today it seems we already know we're on a completely fucked trajectory. That time is running out, but the people who care don't have the power, and the people with power think nothing can touch them.
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I'm not, lmao. My life sucks. Wtf is with all the breeders here trying to justify their contributions to climate change!? There is immensely more pain and suffering in our immediate future than there was at any point in human history. We are literally looking at the end of humanity here.
Breeders, oy..... So wtf you still doing here if so miserable and zero hope?
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We’re all talking now. I don’t find that perspective to be one that equates uniquely to a depressed person. That perspective is relatively prevalent within this thread, but also somewhat prevalent within social circles that I find myself in.
"my life is so miserable that I would rather see the continuation of the species voluntarily end that risk someone else suffers like me" is depression. Maybe it's not suicidal depression, but it probably requires intervention.
Maybe it's just immature edgelord BS, but if not that's a serious problem.
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"my life is so miserable that I would rather see the continuation of the species voluntarily end that risk someone else suffers like me" is depression. Maybe it's not suicidal depression, but it probably requires intervention.
Maybe it's just immature edgelord BS, but if not that's a serious problem.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I really think you’re missing the target entirely.
There’s not a biological imperative for humans to reproduce. It’s pretty egotistical to assume that your species “deserves” to exist. Can you tell me what about our species is so special?
Calling something “a problem,” and failing to articulate on what specifically makes it a problem is MAGA level thinking.
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I'm not, lmao. My life sucks. Wtf is with all the breeders here trying to justify their contributions to climate change!? There is immensely more pain and suffering in our immediate future than there was at any point in human history. We are literally looking at the end of humanity here.
Oh, and are you not contributing to climate change? Ok for you tho, just not kids?
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I personally cringe when I hear a friend js having a kid. All I can think of is how bad theyre going to have it. Hell id definitely have been better off being born 20 years earlier, but these new kids are REALLY screwed unless they have super rich parents.
"Nothing new under the sun" I suppose!
It’s the main reason I’m not having children. While there are other reasons the main one is a combination of global warming made worse by late stage capitalism and the resulting political instability that comes with that.
While I refuse to make the choice to bring someone new into this world myself I do see it as my duty to help as many of the kids around me who were brought into this world regardless. The world they were bron into is not their fault and I appreciate being able to use my resources to help them and their parents.
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My children are still very young, but oh are they happy!
They are enjoying their life and no future suffering will ever take that away from them.
I wouldn't want to deny those awesome humans their right to play as merrily as they do. To create, to enjoy life. They exist right now as well, in 2025 and 2026.
The end of life is always painful. Life is still worth it.
wrote last edited by [email protected]It's a very personal decision and I'm glad about every human that's not born on this crowded planet. But collectively not having children feels pretty bleak to me. Are we as a species already giving up, rolling on our backs and wait to go extinct? Come on! There is so much beauty and so much to do in this world.
My children are having a great time, they bring joy, purpose and chaos to my life. I love having them around, even though their future scares me. That has always been part of becoming a parent.
I feel like some doomer lemmings need to go outside a little more, instead of telling themselves and their screens how awful everything is. Life was brutal a century ago. -
I personally cringe when I hear a friend js having a kid. All I can think of is how bad theyre going to have it. Hell id definitely have been better off being born 20 years earlier, but these new kids are REALLY screwed unless they have super rich parents.
"Nothing new under the sun" I suppose!
Since the industrial revolution, fossil fuels were the only affordable energy sources that could meet the demand of industrialized countries. Until 5-10 years ago.
We're now in a situation where most people can still pretend that climate change isn't serious, and the fossil fuel lobby is stronger than ever. And yet over 90% of new electricity generation is already renewable, because it has simply become cheaper than coal and gas power in the last years.
As climate impacts worsen, the pressure to decarbonize will only get larger. The lobbies have been fighting tooth and nail against the energy transition for over 40 years, but they are rapidly loosing ground now in most countries.
It's right to be alarmed about climate change, there will be serious long-term impacts, but it seems irrational to be completely fatalistic. Just comparing the battery prices and solar panel prices and ev market with 10 years ago reveals a truly massive shift. And this is just the beginning of the energy transition.
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Oh, and are you not contributing to climate change? Ok for you tho, just not kids?
Oh, I still am, but I'm not increasing my footprint exponentially by adding more lives to the equation.
