248 Legally Deceased "Patients" are In These Dewars Awaiting Future Revival - Cryonics
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yes LN2 is cheap-ish (about price of milk) but it's not free. gains you're talking about only happen when comically large dewars are used, these would have to be custom made for them - meaning nonstandard and not cheap
ah yes "just" 1nm precision scanning. even scanning at resolution of six single carbon-carbon bonds won't help you after cell walls and everything that was inside were shredded by ice crystals formed, as i think there's not really suitable cryoprotectant involved, if it's even developed for human-size tissues. i don't think it's a thing, and also freezing rate required would be likely impossible just because of typical human size
as it stands today, moore's law hit a wall, brain simulation is fantasy tech, and it'll remain so for considerable time, i'd even say probably forever (humans will have more pressing issues to deal with). copy is not original and maybe it'll be reassuring to other people, but these other people also are dead by that point so it's useless. the rest are futurologist noises coming from people who don't want to admit that they made a religion out of misinterpreted scifi
500 years in the future? mate, would you consider
Early attempts at cryonic preservation were made in the 1960s and early 1970s; most relied on family members to pay for the preservation and ended in failure, with all but one of the corpses cryopreserved before 1973 being thawed and disposed of.[14]
not even single one frozen today will remain so within 70, 100 years, nevermind 500
LN2 is about 500kJ per kg to liquefy, that's less than 0.01$ per kg, I don't know where you get your milk but I want some I that price. You do know that our atmostphere is 80% nitrogen ?
The size of the dewars isn't the relevant factor, what good is a dewar of LN2 when it's the cryocaskets that need to be cooled, not dewars, you only need dewars to store LN2, but why would you store it in gigantic reservoirs when it can easy be produced on demand and on site ?
1nm scanning volumetric precision isn't really far fetch at the current rate of progress, like I said, cell wall damage isn't going to be a problem, first there's supposed to be very little of it because, you haven't mentioned it but, of course they've been using cryoprotectants from a long time now but even if they weren't, those scanned cells aren't going to need to work, they're just the machinery that produces the structure, before the first person is scanned they will have algorithm to repair any damage to any cell.
What actually matter is the connections between cells, the person itself lives in the network of neurons of the nervous system and the most critical thing that actually needs scanning is the structure inside synapses, everything else is much bigger.
"moore’s law hit a wall", doesn't matter, easilly parrallelizable as a simulation, the hard part was scanning
"it’ll remain so for considerable time" pure speculation, but it does touch on the most probable downfall of this project and that is the very likely planetary scale collapse of human civilization from economic failure cascade.
(humans will have more pressing issues to deal with) I assure you, humans dying today do not have more pressing issues than their own death
"copy is not original" that's a "you" problem, as I mention in my text regarding the Ship of Theseus problem
"don’t want to admit that they made a religion out of misinterpreted scifi" you could paint whole building in one swipe with a brush that wide
"not even single one frozen today will remain so" based on 1960 to 1973 ? How old are you again ?
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The idea is you have investments running that return enough to keep the place running indefinitely.
This sounds like Blackrock but with dead investors in the meat freezer.
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tech is invented
Why? We have enough humans. Why would we thaw out more at huge cost?
Because of the huge cost.
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Are there any even half plausible ways cryogenics might work with the technology we have? I mean, if they're frozen their cells are ruptured.
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Thawing out scientists whose research is stalled because aliens have blocked sub atomic particle research.
Ayy fellow Trisolaris enjoyer
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https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4074928/ - I really liked this movie about it. Without spoilers, the idea basically is that to keep getting funding the company has to prove that the technology works. They have to start waking people up and someone has to be first. Decades after you've been frozen all your family is long dead so you're basically company's property, they can do whatever they want...
wrote last edited by [email protected]Seems like a low rated movie. Yet I'm still interested
Edit: I just saw the movie and it's great. It has the vibe of a Black Mirror story that gotten lengthened to a movie.
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Because of the huge cost.
You already have their money.
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it's not a gamble, it's more of a shared belief propagated by people who took scifi way too seriously
Not even. By people who took it literally and completely missed the point.
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Liquid nitrogen is cheap to produce at scale and LN2 loss decreases per unit of internal volume as the volume increases.
As for the revival tech, of course the meat is never coming back, but once we have the technology to scan the remains with 1 nanometer cubic accuracy then we'll just run simulated copies of them, the biggest question is how much of "them" was destroyed by the freeze/thaw/scan process
But we can probably patch the large bulk of the damage with copies from other people that have undamaged structures,
It will be a little chimeric, you'll have your damage replaced with someone else's or the average of many other people's intact structures.
And then the last thing to answer is the Ship Of Theseus problem, is a near perfect copy of you running in a simulated mathematical space still "you" or is there no "you" left ? That's something only "you" can answer because to the people outside the simulation, the "you" will behave exactly the same as the meat "you"... That's assuming the simulation technology of say, 500 years in the future, actually is that good.
wrote last edited by [email protected]just scan!
This is so much harder than you think it is
how muvh of 'them' was destroyed
All of it. Like there might be some very basic kinda-human structure, but all the bits are soup, tge information is gone. Short of doing full on cosmism; you can't get that back.
simulation
Nobody who talks about them ever seems to understand what a 'simulation' actually is, or how it relates to 'reality'
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We are the bob
We are legion.
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Are there any even half plausible ways cryogenics might work with the technology we have? I mean, if they're frozen their cells are ruptured.
I mean, if they're frozen their cells are ruptured.
Not strictly true, biologists freeze cells all the time. -
Seems like a low rated movie. Yet I'm still interested
Edit: I just saw the movie and it's great. It has the vibe of a Black Mirror story that gotten lengthened to a movie.
Glad you liked it. I think the low rating is because the movie is simply too smart for a lot of people. Like it's actually smart Sci-Fi, not just pretending to be smart like Interstellar.
The same guy also did Open Your Eyes (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125659/) which was remade in US as Vanilla Sky. If you haven't seen it check out the Spanish original.
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And they'll have to fight it out to be the one consciousness getting shoved into a probe and sent into space after they're revived by a theocratic fascist state in 500 years
I get this reference
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From time to time they have to open these things and basically find melted human jelly where a body was once placed.
CERN needs to be stoped
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Glad you liked it. I think the low rating is because the movie is simply too smart for a lot of people. Like it's actually smart Sci-Fi, not just pretending to be smart like Interstellar.
The same guy also did Open Your Eyes (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125659/) which was remade in US as Vanilla Sky. If you haven't seen it check out the Spanish original.
Wut... those are different people no? Mateo Gil and Alejandro Amenabar?
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I mean, if they're frozen their cells are ruptured.
Not strictly true, biologists freeze cells all the time.wrote last edited by [email protected]But whole humans are too big to quickfreeze. The cold just doesn't travel fast enough through the torso and brain to not cause damage.
Ok, there's maybe a workaround. There was some news years ago, about someone that replaced a pigs blood with cold saltwater + glucose to keep them in a stasis and then just pumped the blood back to revive them. That aparently worked up to a few weeks but if you find a chemical that keeps liquid at -100°C or less (and isn't poisonous)...
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But whole humans are too big to quickfreeze. The cold just doesn't travel fast enough through the torso and brain to not cause damage.
Ok, there's maybe a workaround. There was some news years ago, about someone that replaced a pigs blood with cold saltwater + glucose to keep them in a stasis and then just pumped the blood back to revive them. That aparently worked up to a few weeks but if you find a chemical that keeps liquid at -100°C or less (and isn't poisonous)...
Yeah I won’t pretend to know or care about the way it’s done for whole humans. I am dubious of its feasibility, leaning strongly towards thinking it’s just plain old exploitation of grieving people.
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Are there any even half plausible ways cryogenics might work with the technology we have? I mean, if they're frozen their cells are ruptured.
Yeah - its all bullshit. Just a pie in the sky thing to sell to people with lots of money. Reminds me of the Pharaohs being buried with all their shit as if they would live again and still have all their stuff
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Oh god the smell
I've never had the misfortune of dealing with it IRL myself, but the stories from cops who've had to retrieve bloated 'floaters' from shorelines or bodies of water are pretty daunting - describing 'the deceased' as sometimes coming apart in their hands like an overcooked pot roast ("fall off the bone ribs, $9.99 this Thursday at Al's Cookhouse!").
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I've never had the misfortune of dealing with it IRL myself, but the stories from cops who've had to retrieve bloated 'floaters' from shorelines or bodies of water are pretty daunting - describing 'the deceased' as sometimes coming apart in their hands like an overcooked pot roast ("fall off the bone ribs, $9.99 this Thursday at Al's Cookhouse!").
I once had the opportunity to visit a dead whale on a beach and the craziest thing is the smell. It's so aggressive and overwhelming. Because the whale died at sea it started to decompose and the rancid oils covered the beach. The belly had popped and the meat was dark blue blackish. My sinuses got PTSD.
Nothing compares to a massive rotting meat sack marinating in salt water for a few days.
