ISO 26300
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Everyone knows the only acceptable formats are .pdf and .tex, everything else should be shunned out of society.
wrote last edited by [email protected]- If it's meant to be pretty, portable, and read-only: pdf
- If it's text with no formatting: txt
- If it's formatted and read-write: md
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i was a ta in uni in 2011-2015 and while ipad babies weren't a thing yet we did definitely have to explain to some people what files were. as far as i understand from my contacts at the university it it's way worse now.
Ohhh, I can sign off on this.
The amount of 20 year old university students that do not understand how to save a file to a specific location on their computer and then retrieve that file later has skyrocketed the last five years.
This is very obviously a consequence of them only ever having worked through tablet- or phone-type interfaces, where the file system is completely hidden to the user. I teach these people to program, and their eyes gloss over when I ask them where they put the data file they need to parse for the assignment. Once they understand the question they'll typically open the file explorer, click on "recent files", and ask me why their python script won't open it, when the files are right there next to each other in "recent files".
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Do you actually write all the headers and stuff
I've used Latex as my go-to tool for writing anything that needs formatting for years, and I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean?
I start off my document with a
documentclassstatement, which is one line..? And then I will sometimesusepackagea couple things for further document-wide formatting, but we're still talking about a small handful of lines (like 5-10 at most).The preamble can grow quite large for big documents with a lot of specific formatting, but I have some boilerplate preambles with the most common packages lying around that I can copy-paste in. Usually however, the preamble grows as you're writing the document and you add things dynamically as you need them.
I would love to give you a better answer to your question, since my impression is that pretty much no one that swaps to Latex ever looks back, and I would love to help you learn. Feel free to expand on what you mean by "all the headers and stuff" and I'll try to give a better answer
Oh, this is based on my first impression I had a while back when I noped out of it
This is less of a detailed problem description and more like a scream over perceived complexity of something that should be so simple, especially for someone who's very far from programming or advanced computing overall.
Outside of documentclass, there are all the paragraph, section, title, there are all the packages introducing all sorts of things (like, why there's a need for external PACKAGES inside a TEXT DOCUMENT?! Why are they required to do the very basics that are somehow not covered by the base kit?!) etc.
Tables are straight up scary to write in LaTeX, you insert all the parameters and then write it out like some sort of matrix but without any decent sctructure; and plotting - I didn't even try to comprehend it.
Overall, it feels like some unnecessarily nerdy way to edit docs. Probably powerful, but same sort of powerful as editing configs to customize things. Please, make it any sort of user-friendly!
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Oh, this is based on my first impression I had a while back when I noped out of it
This is less of a detailed problem description and more like a scream over perceived complexity of something that should be so simple, especially for someone who's very far from programming or advanced computing overall.
Outside of documentclass, there are all the paragraph, section, title, there are all the packages introducing all sorts of things (like, why there's a need for external PACKAGES inside a TEXT DOCUMENT?! Why are they required to do the very basics that are somehow not covered by the base kit?!) etc.
Tables are straight up scary to write in LaTeX, you insert all the parameters and then write it out like some sort of matrix but without any decent sctructure; and plotting - I didn't even try to comprehend it.
Overall, it feels like some unnecessarily nerdy way to edit docs. Probably powerful, but same sort of powerful as editing configs to customize things. Please, make it any sort of user-friendly!
wrote last edited by [email protected]Ahh, now I understand! I'll try my best to make it less scary
To start off
why is there a need for external packages for a text document?
There usually isn't, as long as you only want a simple document. The most basic thinkable document would be
\documentclass{article} \begin{document} This is the text in my document \end{document}However, you'll likely want a title and author, so you can start off with
\documentclass{article} \title{Fishes are nice} \author{Definitely not Jason Mamoa} \begin{document} \maketitle \section{Introduction} This is a text about why fishes are nice. \end{document}You have your "Super basic document", with at title and author. You can make simple formatting changes by modifying the
documentclassstatement at the top. My recommendation with all the external packages (usepackage) is to look them up one-by-one as you need them. You'll typically find a small handfull of packages that you need very often, and then you'll probably end up copy-pasting those declarations over whenever you create a new document. For most basic documents I'm using like 2-5 packages at most (fancy math fonts, hyperlinks, pretty bibliography, etc.)Tables are straight up scary
They take a little getting used to, I agree. For someone working a lot with tables, I would recommend getting used to them, but if you only very rarely need them, there are "graphical editors" that let you build a table in a GUI and then give you the Latex code for it. Overleaf has an integrated "visual editing" mode that makes the barrier to entry lower. However I don't really recommend it for someone that really wants to learn to use Latex, because I think it prevents people from progressing past the very basics.
plotting - I didn’t even try to comprehend it
I've used Latex for years, specifically writing documents with a lot of plots. I have yet to attempt to learn to plot directly in Latex. I know some people that will create figures and plots directly in Latex, and I respect them. I use inkscape for figures, and python for plotting, and can get stuff looking pretty awesome that way. Learning to draw/plot directly in Latex is by no means a must.
Please, make it any sort of user-friendly!
As with other powerful tools, I think people are often overwhelmed coming in because of the massive number of possibilities, and the fine-grained control that is possible. My recommendation is to start out with something like the above, and progressively add complexity as you need it. Most people don't require more than basic section (and sub- subsub- etc.) headers, tables, figures, and equations. In that case, you'll need like 3-5 external packages and 3-5 "commands" (stuff like
\begin{equation}). If you start out with the above example, you'll probably learn the basics on your own in a couple hoursI've held some latex-courses for beginners, so if you want, I could send you the "basic starting file" that the people taking the course have completed writing (with help) after about two hours
I've been told that most of them feel pretty comfortable learning on their own once they have that. -
.tex
Ha, lamers. A true wizard writes their assignments in roff.
roff? Ha poser! I use CTSS /s
Nah, I hand code my postscript on magnetic core memory with a geomag stud.
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Ahh, now I understand! I'll try my best to make it less scary
To start off
why is there a need for external packages for a text document?
There usually isn't, as long as you only want a simple document. The most basic thinkable document would be
\documentclass{article} \begin{document} This is the text in my document \end{document}However, you'll likely want a title and author, so you can start off with
\documentclass{article} \title{Fishes are nice} \author{Definitely not Jason Mamoa} \begin{document} \maketitle \section{Introduction} This is a text about why fishes are nice. \end{document}You have your "Super basic document", with at title and author. You can make simple formatting changes by modifying the
documentclassstatement at the top. My recommendation with all the external packages (usepackage) is to look them up one-by-one as you need them. You'll typically find a small handfull of packages that you need very often, and then you'll probably end up copy-pasting those declarations over whenever you create a new document. For most basic documents I'm using like 2-5 packages at most (fancy math fonts, hyperlinks, pretty bibliography, etc.)Tables are straight up scary
They take a little getting used to, I agree. For someone working a lot with tables, I would recommend getting used to them, but if you only very rarely need them, there are "graphical editors" that let you build a table in a GUI and then give you the Latex code for it. Overleaf has an integrated "visual editing" mode that makes the barrier to entry lower. However I don't really recommend it for someone that really wants to learn to use Latex, because I think it prevents people from progressing past the very basics.
plotting - I didn’t even try to comprehend it
I've used Latex for years, specifically writing documents with a lot of plots. I have yet to attempt to learn to plot directly in Latex. I know some people that will create figures and plots directly in Latex, and I respect them. I use inkscape for figures, and python for plotting, and can get stuff looking pretty awesome that way. Learning to draw/plot directly in Latex is by no means a must.
Please, make it any sort of user-friendly!
As with other powerful tools, I think people are often overwhelmed coming in because of the massive number of possibilities, and the fine-grained control that is possible. My recommendation is to start out with something like the above, and progressively add complexity as you need it. Most people don't require more than basic section (and sub- subsub- etc.) headers, tables, figures, and equations. In that case, you'll need like 3-5 external packages and 3-5 "commands" (stuff like
\begin{equation}). If you start out with the above example, you'll probably learn the basics on your own in a couple hoursI've held some latex-courses for beginners, so if you want, I could send you the "basic starting file" that the people taking the course have completed writing (with help) after about two hours
I've been told that most of them feel pretty comfortable learning on their own once they have that.Wow, I appreciate the time and effort you put into this, and yes, it sounds a bit reassuring
I probably feel the way computer noobs feel when someone here enthusiastically calls them to join Linux lol (I already did, no need to advocate here! :D)
And yes, with that in mind, I'll give it another spin. I'd like to have that basic file example!
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Do you remember when radicals were trying to cancel RMS because of him merely defending some accused person.
No, I in fact don't.
I recall people questioning his publicly stated beliefs on his website that he updates frequently of "what if the child consents tho?!" when defending someone accused of sexual assault.
Dutch pedophiles have formed a political party to campaign for legalization.
I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.
All link his personal website for her views and documented credited places for other statements/citations.
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I believe Zettlr editor uses pandoc to convert MD to LaTeX.
Indeed needs some manual tinkering, as long as I remember, at least since MD is not so feature-rich
But thanks for the recommendation!
Yes, I also use Zettlr and it works fine. Especially with the Zotero integration. But you are right, it sometimes needs some tweaks to work fine.
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Yes, I also use Zettlr and it works fine. Especially with the Zotero integration. But you are right, it sometimes needs some tweaks to work fine.
Zotero is straight up godsend - especially with some useful plugins. Figuring out how Zettlr integration works took a while, but it was fairly convenient at the end.
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This post did not contain any content.wrote last edited by [email protected]
I would do my work in OpenOffice at home, save it to doc/docx, then when it is entirely completed, I will bring it to the library to load it in Word on a library computer and correct any formatting issues and resave it.
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Mine accepted rtf.
Another proprietary Microsoft format:
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Wow, I appreciate the time and effort you put into this, and yes, it sounds a bit reassuring
I probably feel the way computer noobs feel when someone here enthusiastically calls them to join Linux lol (I already did, no need to advocate here! :D)
And yes, with that in mind, I'll give it another spin. I'd like to have that basic file example!
Sorry for taking some time, monday morning suddenly hit me in the face... I've put up some files here that you should be able to download. The files can be opened with any plain-text editor (notepad, textedit, or similar).
My recommendation is to create an account on overleaf, click "create new project", and upload the files there. Then you can hit "recompile" to see how the document looks. My guess is that you'll figure out how stuff works pretty quickly just by modifying that file. If what you want to write is a simple document, you can really just get going
Feel free to let me know if you have any issues
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Sorry for taking some time, monday morning suddenly hit me in the face... I've put up some files here that you should be able to download. The files can be opened with any plain-text editor (notepad, textedit, or similar).
My recommendation is to create an account on overleaf, click "create new project", and upload the files there. Then you can hit "recompile" to see how the document looks. My guess is that you'll figure out how stuff works pretty quickly just by modifying that file. If what you want to write is a simple document, you can really just get going
Feel free to let me know if you have any issues
Thanks! Will try
Also, hey, you share treasure trove of info and then say sorry?
I'm thankful you have shared it!
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- If it's meant to be pretty, portable, and read-only: pdf
- If it's text with no formatting: txt
- If it's formatted and read-write: md
I know png has issues but I HATE ANYTHING ELSE googles OWN version of PowerPoint doesn't support their OWN file format!!
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good ol virus.txt
You joke, but that has happened through abusing the IME keyboard relationship.
