Why does philosophy education make people uncomfortable?
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
I don't think it makes them uncomfortable, I think they just don't get it.
Most of us are told to go to school to get the job you want, and philosopher really hasn't been a high demand job since ancient Greece.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
You probably looked younger before.
In general it's harder for people to crush dreams of somebody just starting their adult life. The older you look, the more people expect you to "have your shit together". For many, not having easily monetizeable trade/education at a certain age equates to failure.
People were probably always thinking like this, just didn't let it show, assuming you'd change course to something else anyway. But you prevailed.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
I wonder if its the age of people you're interacting with now, as you've gotten older yourself? My first degree was in philosophy, and I still read and discuss the subject when I get the chance. In my 20s lots of peers were curious or genuinely interested, and even if they were dismissive, it was often "what's the point of that?" and could get the interested if I started explaining a classic problem or thought experiment.
Older people however, were generally more disparaging and would openly scoff with "why would we need philosophy!" often followed by "[Science | religion | real life] tells us everything we need to know" depending on their particuar worldview.
At the time I just thought that was what that generation was like, but now I'm in my 40s and I feel like many peers are getting more and more like that. I can only speculate that middle-aged people are less curious and openminded, they've come to terms with the world as they see it and they're interested in getting on with things, not questioning the nature of epistemology or whatever. But the irony is that almost all the major problems that occupy so much of our time as a culture have massive philosophical aspects to them.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
Hey, almost-same boat here! I’m guessing in your late 20s/early 30s, you were likely surrounded by people who were in the same environment (higher ed), or who were sussing out your potential. But when you’re out of the ivory tower, it doesn’t mean shit.
Humanities degrees are critical thinking in a way that people generally don’t want to engage in. There’s no neat solution, and it will eventually make you confront your own ideology, or the one you’ve been in the grip of, and people really don’t want to think about that. Even more simply, higher ed is a stand in for “liberalism,” and in the last couple years, a thing to outright and wholly reject.
I don’t tell people that my English Ph.D. primary list straight up said “communist theory” at the top. I’m happy to let everyone think I just proofread stuff after 16 years of school, and I’ll say I should’ve been an electrician every time. I think a rich inner life and infinitely more nuanced understanding of the world is better than whatever my neighbor’s got going on.
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I don't think it makes them uncomfortable, I think they just don't get it.
Most of us are told to go to school to get the job you want, and philosopher really hasn't been a high demand job since ancient Greece.
Reminds me of this.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
"The arts are useless and will make you a poor stupid leftist... Do a trade" <----- type of statemet that has been doing the rounds on the far-right since at least 2014.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
Because everyone hates moral philosophy professors, Chidi.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
What is your job? Is it a philosophy related job?
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
Here is a quote, taken slightly out of context, that I believe speaks to what you are experiencing:
"The clinical picture of a person who has been reduced to elemental concerns of survival is still frequently mistaken for a portrait of the survivor's underlying character." - World Health Organization. (May 31, 2016). ICD-11 Beta Draft (Joint Linearization for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics).
Extrapolating from that in this other context, we can assume more and more people are simply losing their capacity to entertain "loftier" ideals than immediate survival. For all too many, there was never any other choice.
I studied philosophy at university in the 80's, and remember the endless jokes about what restaurant job I would be able to get with my degree, etc. It speaks to the hidden framework of capitalism that confines us all. It's only gotten worse in my lifetime.
I look back at my parents, who were able to buy their own house and raise two kids with a single earner, blue collar wage. My mom did eventually work as well, which allowed us children to go to college.
Now I am close to retirement, and I have nothing to show for it. No house, no car, no big retirement payout waiting. I 'squandered' my money and time being an activist and humanitarian, living in the moment and refusing to produce or hoard wealth for the capitalist machine just because.
I try to use my philosophical insight as a practical methodology to remove myself from the clamor for crumbs. I am a minimalist, an environmentalist, a gardener, a handyman and helper, a teacher - a papa smurf to my community and philosopher to my peers. I wouldn't trade it for all the money in the world, but I would be remiss to ignore the looming economic circumstances that threaten the future of humanity, myself included.
But I will forge ahead into this wilderness. As Deleuze and Guattari would say, forget reading someone else's map, become your own cartographer. Philosophy is a great basis for profound understanding of the human condition. It won't make you rich, and it certainly won't be respected or understood in this modern world - but it will enrich you. If you follow your heart it can show you a path through the madness that does not require that you shed your humanity or reduce yourself to that of an economic survivor, victor, or victim, and can serve as a beacon for others less fortunate to have been afforded such a perspective.
I often share the story of Taigu Ryōkan, the Zen Master, who perfectly illustrates both the value of philosophical introspection, and it's liberating effect from the confines of the material world.
https://laspina.org/the-thief-and-the-moon-a-zen-tale-in-ryokans-haiku/
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I wonder if its the age of people you're interacting with now, as you've gotten older yourself? My first degree was in philosophy, and I still read and discuss the subject when I get the chance. In my 20s lots of peers were curious or genuinely interested, and even if they were dismissive, it was often "what's the point of that?" and could get the interested if I started explaining a classic problem or thought experiment.
Older people however, were generally more disparaging and would openly scoff with "why would we need philosophy!" often followed by "[Science | religion | real life] tells us everything we need to know" depending on their particuar worldview.
At the time I just thought that was what that generation was like, but now I'm in my 40s and I feel like many peers are getting more and more like that. I can only speculate that middle-aged people are less curious and openminded, they've come to terms with the world as they see it and they're interested in getting on with things, not questioning the nature of epistemology or whatever. But the irony is that almost all the major problems that occupy so much of our time as a culture have massive philosophical aspects to them.
Older people however, were generally more disparaging and would openly scoff with “why would we need philosophy!” often followed by “[Science | religion | real life] tells us everything we need to know” depending on their particuar worldview.
Philosophy is just psychology. Psychology is just biology. Biology is just chemistry. Chemisty is just physics. Physics is just math. Math, though, math is just philosophy. Fun joke, but like many such jokes, there's an element of truth there. While I have met some philosophy majors who find the exploration of logic so compelling that they forget to consider the humanity of their first principals, I deeply respect that Philosophy is ultimately the underpinning of how humans think about the universe in any meaningful way.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
It contradicts their religion. Or at least they feel it does. Thinking about morality/existence/epistemology outside the framework of religion is an affront to Jesus... or something.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
Most people assume they are the smartest person in the room and philosophers are well known to think they are smart so no one likes someone thinking they are smarter than you.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
I've known 3 philosophy majors that I know of.
One had a PhD and was absolutely insufferable. We were coworkers, and he'd often say falsehoods to try to be funny. Like, "Did you write that documentation I asked for?", and he'd say like "I spent all morning writing it as a series of haikus". I'm like, my guy, just answer the question. I'd ask him to stop being sarcastic so often in professional contexts and he'd be like "I'm not being sarcastic I'm being ironic." You knew what I meant, Ryan!
He would also use language to say things that were tEcHnIcAlLy true. Like, "I finished that task (or 1 equals 1)", except he had more subtle ones.
Was it because he was a philosophy PhD? Probably not. Some of his annoying habits he tied back to philosophy stuff, but he was probably just an asshole. But that's who I think of (other than chidi)
The other one I knew was fine in a messy nihilist rich kid way. Fun at parties. Can't be friends.
And the last one is one of the nicest people I've ever met. Just thoughtful and patient and a really positive person.
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"The arts are useless and will make you a poor stupid leftist... Do a trade" <----- type of statemet that has been doing the rounds on the far-right since at least 2014.
Foolish far-right! It makes you a poor, smart leftist!
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
I'm sure OP knows this, but there are many branches of philosophy. On the epistemology side, there's usually more focus on meaning and knowledge. On ethics, focus on right and wrong. On logic, it's closer to math and science.
Many people think philosophy just means sophistry and arguing, but each branch has practical applications too. Some of my philosophy major friends ended up going for PhDs. The only career path there was writing and teaching. For those who didn't, it was to supplement some other degree.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
Well, there's an anti-intellectual streak in the world. And, given the cultural trends of the last 20 years, it's not getting smaller. So there's that. Deep down some people will think you think you're better than them. Deep down some people might be touchy about touchy about their level of education and tired to being lied and condescended to by people presenting themselves as cultural authorieies.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
Anti intellectualism.
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Here is a quote, taken slightly out of context, that I believe speaks to what you are experiencing:
"The clinical picture of a person who has been reduced to elemental concerns of survival is still frequently mistaken for a portrait of the survivor's underlying character." - World Health Organization. (May 31, 2016). ICD-11 Beta Draft (Joint Linearization for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics).
Extrapolating from that in this other context, we can assume more and more people are simply losing their capacity to entertain "loftier" ideals than immediate survival. For all too many, there was never any other choice.
I studied philosophy at university in the 80's, and remember the endless jokes about what restaurant job I would be able to get with my degree, etc. It speaks to the hidden framework of capitalism that confines us all. It's only gotten worse in my lifetime.
I look back at my parents, who were able to buy their own house and raise two kids with a single earner, blue collar wage. My mom did eventually work as well, which allowed us children to go to college.
Now I am close to retirement, and I have nothing to show for it. No house, no car, no big retirement payout waiting. I 'squandered' my money and time being an activist and humanitarian, living in the moment and refusing to produce or hoard wealth for the capitalist machine just because.
I try to use my philosophical insight as a practical methodology to remove myself from the clamor for crumbs. I am a minimalist, an environmentalist, a gardener, a handyman and helper, a teacher - a papa smurf to my community and philosopher to my peers. I wouldn't trade it for all the money in the world, but I would be remiss to ignore the looming economic circumstances that threaten the future of humanity, myself included.
But I will forge ahead into this wilderness. As Deleuze and Guattari would say, forget reading someone else's map, become your own cartographer. Philosophy is a great basis for profound understanding of the human condition. It won't make you rich, and it certainly won't be respected or understood in this modern world - but it will enrich you. If you follow your heart it can show you a path through the madness that does not require that you shed your humanity or reduce yourself to that of an economic survivor, victor, or victim, and can serve as a beacon for others less fortunate to have been afforded such a perspective.
I often share the story of Taigu Ryōkan, the Zen Master, who perfectly illustrates both the value of philosophical introspection, and it's liberating effect from the confines of the material world.
https://laspina.org/the-thief-and-the-moon-a-zen-tale-in-ryokans-haiku/
....we can assume more and more people are simply losing their capacity to entertain “loftier” ideals than immediate survival.
This was my thinking as well, along with people not wanting the possibility of reflecting on their own life/morals/values/etc. in the face of something else that they haven't been confronted with.
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What is your job? Is it a philosophy related job?
They said they quit academia, and called it a hobby. Unless you're trying to do an ill-considered gotcha yourself.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
I think it's cool! Congratulations on your two degrees. As to your question, I'm not sure why people would find it negative.
