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Lol, imagine being so naive (or dense) you think these two things can exist without each other.
In Hungary, the effective tax rate is ~33%, we also have 27%(!) VAT, but hey, if you're making the grandchildren of Fidesz voters work "real manly job", you can get a 0% tax rate on your business.
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People being fine with higher taxes is a function of a trustworthy system where tax money actually goes to spending that benefits the tax payer.
If the expectation is that the funds get misplaced/pocketed/diverted along the way your average citizen will be far more willing (and view it as far more morally justifiable) to make efforts to avoid/reduce paying taxes.
I feel you're heavily underestimating the dreaded combo of public perception and complacency.
From what I've seen, there have been plenty of attempts for the traditionally corrupt governments to better themselves, but the populous blocking it by going "yeah, right".
Same thing with high trust goverments becoming more corrupt and people excusing it with "we have the good government!" -
Same for Germany ¯\(ツ)/¯
Come to Cologne, where people are proud of the corruption and nepotism, affectionately called "Klüngel", that directly turns their tax money into profit for some clever Jeck. For example via an opera house that was supposed to cost 250 million and is currently projected to cost about 1,5 billion.
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This site is genuinely moronic
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Come to Cologne, where people are proud of the corruption and nepotism, affectionately called "Klüngel", that directly turns their tax money into profit for some clever Jeck. For example via an opera house that was supposed to cost 250 million and is currently projected to cost about 1,5 billion.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Those cost increases are not unique to Cologne though. It starts with a cost estimate that's way below a reasonable sum of money and that is highly unlikely to work out, but one that is politically feasible. Then (once planning and building is happening) costs increase and often enough, public sector decision makers are inept at damage control when unexpected things happen (which they do) and plans need to be reworked accordingly. Sunk cost fallacy is also real. Things then get out of hand and construction companies know that shit needs to get done at some point and there's more money to be made once the child has fallen into the well.
You're not gonna be able to start a 600 million euro project if you're honest about it. You say it'll be 250 million, get it greenlit, and go from there. It's stupid, but that's how it works everywhere. I'm not saying that there is no corruption involved, but I don't think it's the worst problem. Look at Stuttgart 21: It is now at least 5 years overdue and cost increased from 4.5 to 11 billion.
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Those cost increases are not unique to Cologne though. It starts with a cost estimate that's way below a reasonable sum of money and that is highly unlikely to work out, but one that is politically feasible. Then (once planning and building is happening) costs increase and often enough, public sector decision makers are inept at damage control when unexpected things happen (which they do) and plans need to be reworked accordingly. Sunk cost fallacy is also real. Things then get out of hand and construction companies know that shit needs to get done at some point and there's more money to be made once the child has fallen into the well.
You're not gonna be able to start a 600 million euro project if you're honest about it. You say it'll be 250 million, get it greenlit, and go from there. It's stupid, but that's how it works everywhere. I'm not saying that there is no corruption involved, but I don't think it's the worst problem. Look at Stuttgart 21: It is now at least 5 years overdue and cost increased from 4.5 to 11 billion.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I know. What's unique to Cologne is the fact that the people deciding the budget and the bosses of the construction companies share a table at some carnival events, drink some Kölsch and make some deals. And the people of Cologne enjoy this as part of their tradition. And once all the tax money is gone and the rest of the city collapsed (as long as it's not the Dom) they'll simply say "Et hätt noch immer jot jejange" and carry on as usual.
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At least places with taxes have:
- a functioning health care system,
- actual mental health system, not just suggestions from politicians to "go to a church instead";
- job options for the disabled that aren't either a brutally underpaid communal work program, or taken out from some frat boy politician's favorite r*t*rd joke, who also think people in wheelchair are just "too dumb to even stand up", and autistic people are "just intellectual r*t*rds, whose moms slept with their teachers to not get transferred to special ed".
And why is that? Whats the difference between those places that manifests itself in such a way...
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Until you realize your life is in fucking danger there. Nearly every summer, in Greece, we are dealing with wildfires.
Last year, there was a fire in Rhodes during September. People were jumping in the sea to save their life. The response of the government was to provide vouchers to tourists from foreign countries, so that they will visit again next year.
The government gave no shit to Greek people, and I don't really think people from other countries dared to come again.
Besides the issues with emergency services, there are also pricing problems. I only know about Greece and Turkey. In tourist areas of those countries, all prices are inexcusably high.
This year a wildfire started in the center of fucking Athens.
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I know. What's unique to Cologne is the fact that the people deciding the budget and the bosses of the construction companies share a table at some carnival events, drink some Kölsch and make some deals. And the people of Cologne enjoy this as part of their tradition. And once all the tax money is gone and the rest of the city collapsed (as long as it's not the Dom) they'll simply say "Et hätt noch immer jot jejange" and carry on as usual.
Köln is indeed special.
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That's cute.
Now add Gibraltar to the map. -
This year a wildfire started in the center of fucking Athens.
Then it's not wild, it's urban.
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Taxes. Because I have a brain and understand how a civil, functioning society, works.
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In Hungary, the effective tax rate is ~33%, we also have 27%(!) VAT, but hey, if you're making the grandchildren of Fidesz voters work "real manly job", you can get a 0% tax rate on your business.
we also have 27%(!) VAT
That's wild
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we also have 27%(!) VAT
That's wild
The rationale is to "punish not the work but the rich", except the rich gets to skirt around VAT, by having at least one business. Also we literally have the tax system suggested by the Bell Curve authors, to "encourage high-IQ families to make children".
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I'd say Germany does not have high taxes IF YOU ARE RICH. Also Germany has lots oft corruption, in my opinion, most oft it is not seen by many people.
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The rationale is to "punish not the work but the rich", except the rich gets to skirt around VAT, by having at least one business. Also we literally have the tax system suggested by the Bell Curve authors, to "encourage high-IQ families to make children".
Nice to see a sneak preview of my country in a year or two...
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I'm actually wondering how much of this has to do with the climate, i.e. the physical weather patterns. something like: living in northern countries historically meant that you had a tougher time getting through the winter, because the winters are harsher and longer, so you need to store more food and make sure it doesn't spoil, which requires extra planning. so as a historical consequence, northern countries end up with a higher degree of organization, including bigger states, more organized tax systems, overall more organized structures.
You can see many examples of this. all big empires historically have had their center on the northern hemisphere, including england, US, europe, USSR, china. there's (almost) none on the south.
