Python needs an actual default function
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Sometimes I have the misfortune of working with python code written by someone else and I wonder how a language like this became anything more than a scripting language
I feel that Python is a bit of a 'Microsoft Word' of languages. Your own scripts are obviously completely fine, using a sensible and pragmatic selection of the language features in a robust fashion, but everyone else's are absurd collections of hacks that fall to pieces at the first modification.
To an extent, 'other people's C++ / Bash scripts' have the same problem. I'm usually okay with 'other people's Java', which to me is one of the big selling points of the language - the slight wordiness and lack of 'really stupid shit' makes collaboration easier.
Now, a Python script that's more than about two pages long? That makes me question its utility. The 'duck typing' everywhere makes any code that you can't 'keep in your head' very difficult to reason about.
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Python people explaining fail to see the point: Yes we know dunders exist. We just want you to say: "Yeah, that is a bit hacky, isn't it?"
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Tbh reserving "main" is just a hacky if not more so than checking
__name__if you actually understand language design. -
I feel that Python is a bit of a 'Microsoft Word' of languages. Your own scripts are obviously completely fine, using a sensible and pragmatic selection of the language features in a robust fashion, but everyone else's are absurd collections of hacks that fall to pieces at the first modification.
To an extent, 'other people's C++ / Bash scripts' have the same problem. I'm usually okay with 'other people's Java', which to me is one of the big selling points of the language - the slight wordiness and lack of 'really stupid shit' makes collaboration easier.
Now, a Python script that's more than about two pages long? That makes me question its utility. The 'duck typing' everywhere makes any code that you can't 'keep in your head' very difficult to reason about.
How do you feel about other peoples Go code?
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Also, do y'all call main() in the if block or do you just put the code you want to run in the if block?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Can someone explain to me how to compile a C library with "main" and a program with main? How does executing a program actually work? It has an executable flag, but what actually happens in the OS when it encounters a file with an executable file? How does it know to execute "main"? Is it possible to have a library that can be called and also executed like a program?
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I use if__name__main__ often when working with AWS Lambda, but I also want to run it locally. Lambda wants to call a function with the params
eventandcontext. So I would do something like this:def handler(event, context): things return { 'statusCode': 200, 'body': 'Hello from Lambda!' } if __name__ == '__main__': event = {} context = {} response = handler(event, context) print(response)Diabolical
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Also, do y'all call main() in the if block or do you just put the code you want to run in the if block?
Shouldn't the third panel just be empty?
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Can someone explain to me how to compile a C library with "main" and a program with main? How does executing a program actually work? It has an executable flag, but what actually happens in the OS when it encounters a file with an executable file? How does it know to execute "main"? Is it possible to have a library that can be called and also executed like a program?
I haven't done much low level stuff, but I think the 'main' function is something the compiler uses to establish an entry point for the compiled binary. The name 'main' would not exist in the compiled binary at all, but the function itself would still exist. Executable formats aren't all the same, so they'll have different ways of determining where this entry point function is expected to be. You can 'run' a binary library file by invoking a function contained therein, which is how DLL files work.
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Can someone explain to me how to compile a C library with "main" and a program with main? How does executing a program actually work? It has an executable flag, but what actually happens in the OS when it encounters a file with an executable file? How does it know to execute "main"? Is it possible to have a library that can be called and also executed like a program?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]You don't. In C everything gets referenced by a symbol during the link stage of compilation. Libraries ultimately get treated like your source code during compilation and all items land in a symbol table. Two items with the same name result in a link failure and compilation aborts. So a library and a program with main is no bueno.
When Linux loads an executable they basically look at the program's symbol table and search for "main" then start executing at that point
Windows behaves mostly the same way, as does MacOS. Most RTOS's have their own special way of doing things, bare metal you're at the mercy of your CPU vendor. The C standard specifies that "main" is the special symbol we all just happen to use
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Can someone explain to me how to compile a C library with "main" and a program with main? How does executing a program actually work? It has an executable flag, but what actually happens in the OS when it encounters a file with an executable file? How does it know to execute "main"? Is it possible to have a library that can be called and also executed like a program?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]How does executing a program actually work?
Way too long an answer for a lemmy post
It has an executable flag, but what actually happens in the OS when it encounters a file with an executable file?
Depends on OS. Linux will look at the first bytes of the file, either see (ASCII)
#!(called a shebang) or ELF magic, then call the appropriate interpreter with the executable as an argument. When executing e.g. python, it's going to call/usr/bin/envwith parameterspythonand the file name because the shebang was#!/usr/bin/env python.How does it know to execute “main”?
Compiled C programs are ELF so it will go through the ELF header, figure out which
ld.soto use, then start that so that it will find all the libraries, resolve all dynamic symbols, then do some bookkeeping, and jump to_start. That is, it doesn't:mainis a C thing.Is it possible to have a library that can be called and also executed like a program?
Absolutely.
ld.sois an example of that.. Actually, wait, I'm not so sure any more, I'm getting things mixed up withlibdl.so. In any caseld.sois an executable with a file extension that makes it look like a library.EDIT: It does work. My (GNU) libc spits out version info when executed as an executable.
If you want to start looking at the innards like that I would suggest starting here: Hello world in assembly. Note the absence of a
mainfunction, the symbol the kernel actually invokes is_start, the setup necessary to call a Cmainis done bylibc.so. Don't try to understand GNU's libc it's full of hystarical raisins I would suggest musl. -
Shouldn't the third panel just be empty?
It’s fine like this
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Also, do y'all call main() in the if block or do you just put the code you want to run in the if block?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Still better than having to create a new class just to implement
public static void main(String[] args) {}Relevant Fireship video: https://youtu.be/m4-HM_sCvtQ
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Can someone explain to me how to compile a C library with "main" and a program with main? How does executing a program actually work? It has an executable flag, but what actually happens in the OS when it encounters a file with an executable file? How does it know to execute "main"? Is it possible to have a library that can be called and also executed like a program?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]If you want to have a library that can also be a standalone executable, just put the main function in an extra file and don't compile that file when using the library as a library.
You could also use the preprocessor to do it similar to python but please don't.Just use any build tool, and have two targets, one library and one executable:
LIB_SOURCES = tools.c, stuff.c, more.c EXE_SOURCES = main.c, $LIB_SOURCESEdit: added example
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Now think about this, you have logic that doesn't make sense when run directly, but you need it to be a library.
You have multiple name=main statements in some of your functions
I'm not sure I'm following the implication. Name=main is for scripts primary, is it not?
I've never thought to add more than one of these conditionals anyway...
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Also, do y'all call main() in the if block or do you just put the code you want to run in the if block?
One thing I really dislike about Python is the double underscore thing, just really looks ugly to me and feels excessive. Just give me my flow control characters that aren't whitespace
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What is the point of this?
Not having tons of code in one if statement, but in a function.
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One thing I really dislike about Python is the double underscore thing, just really looks ugly to me and feels excessive. Just give me my flow control characters that aren't whitespace
Php says hello
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Still better than having to create a new class just to implement
public static void main(String[] args) {}Relevant Fireship video: https://youtu.be/m4-HM_sCvtQ
Since Java 21, this has been shortened significantly. https://www.baeldung.com/java-21-unnamed-class-instance-main
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Also, do y'all call main() in the if block or do you just put the code you want to run in the if block?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]It really doesn't. It's a scripting language, functions are there but at it's core it runs a script. The issue is that it was so easy to start with that people started doing everything in it, even though it sucks for anything past complex scripts
It is the excel of databases.
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Since Java 21, this has been shortened significantly. https://www.baeldung.com/java-21-unnamed-class-instance-main
Free standing functions in Java?! This can't be true.
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Free standing functions in Java?! This can't be true.
I know right? It even has var with implicit typing now. While I prefer Kotlin any day, there's been quite a few qol improvements to Java over the last few years.
