Here's an exercise in extreme masochism:
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Love the idea of the challenge, my issue would be lack of a validator tool to confirm I'd completed the challenge - any suggestions?
You use the new franken system to do an update to the new version of that distro's flavour without bricking the system.
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The Linux Ship of Theseus
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pick any distro and install it.
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Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.
System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).
No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.
Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.
Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.
Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.
Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.
Okay i'll cheat with Guix then
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Love the idea of the challenge, my issue would be lack of a validator tool to confirm I'd completed the challenge - any suggestions?
After completing the challenge and making sure your system is usable and can survive a reboot:
If you've kept the old package manager, search for installed packages and make sure that the package manager itself is the only thing left. Then delete itm
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The Linux Ship of Theseus
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pick any distro and install it.
-
Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.
System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).
No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.
Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.
Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.
Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.
Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.
without installing another distro over the top of it ... [replace] package managers
The package manager is the distro, though.
$ pacman -S apk-tools $ apk add alpine-base linux-ltsThen
kexecto alpine's kernel and theinitramfsgenerated by its installation (which would incidentally "replace" PID 1 with the new/sbin/init). For clean up you could take a diff of "tar -t" for all the installed packages from both distros then delete the files only in the old distro's packages.Make a self-compiled distro your target.
Replace the first step with a compilation of
apk,abuildeverything required byalpine-baseandlinux-lts(git clone aportsto bootstrap that work), then add the package directory to/etc/apk/repositoriesbefore the second step. Next, begin to worry that you haven't fully broken free yet, replaceabuildwith a bespokemybuildandapkwithtar -x, grapple with signed binaries, reflect on your own identity and authenticity, then take a tour throughgentooand find yourself missing the$HOMEyou left and its familiar comforts. -
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Reminds me of a recent post someone converted their system from Debian to OpenBSD via SSH only
Why does that sound familiar.
Did they load an OS into ram to run ssh then rebuild the machine, also some VPS that the provider was dragging their feet on remote hands.
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Why does that sound familiar.
Did they load an OS into ram to run ssh then rebuild the machine, also some VPS that the provider was dragging their feet on remote hands.
I can't find it now but basically something like that yeah. VPS provider only gave them SSH on linux so couldn't run the openbsd installer any normal way either
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I "broke" linux mint just by trying to pop KDE on, had to timeshift because it messed up my keyboard layout and a whole bunch of other things with my display.
I don't know how people do these crazy changes without pain, and have a feeling the answer is simply "there's pain"
wrote on last edited by [email protected].
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I once switched from Debian i386 to amd64 in-place. That was MUCH harder than you would expect, I guess somewhere between medium and hard in your list. That server is still running that install btw, so in the end it all worked out.
wrote on last edited by [email protected].
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The Linux Ship of Theseus
-
pick any distro and install it.
-
Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.
System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).
No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.
Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.
Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.
Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.
Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.
I've done the Arch to Artix. It wasn't hard, per se, but it took a while. I think that should be Medium, because Artix isn't just an Arch derivative.
In fact, might I suggest a different way of looking at the difficulties?
- Replacing the package manager: Hard.
- Replacing the package manager without a live USB: Extreme.
- Going from a basic systemd-based distro (init, log, cron) to anything else: Hard
- Going from a systemd distro that's bought into the entire systemd stack, including home and boot: Extreme
- Going from one init to another: Medium
- Changing boot systems: grub to UEFI, for example: Easy.
- Replacing all GNU tools with other things: Extreme (mainly because of script expectations).
And so on. You get 1 point for Easy, 2 for Medium, 4 for Hard, and 8 for Extreme. Add 'em up, go for a high score.
I don't think rolling your own is that hard, TBH, unless you're expected to also build a package manager. If maintaining it would be harder than building it.
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Is that even possible? I'm already in panic when I remove a package and it's dependencies with pacman
.Sure I did replaced Thunar with Nemo, but a few things don't work exactly how it should, like opening the download directory from Firefox (Known issue BTW) even though all mime-types are correctly set !
Even switching from Alternative -> Base distro seems like a really difficult task
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The Linux Ship of Theseus
-
pick any distro and install it.
-
Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.
System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).
No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.
Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.
Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.
Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.
Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.
I've got a blank macbook air at home waiting for a project.
I've never undergone a project like this without cheating by using bedrock linux as an intermediary then "Unbedrocking" my install (officially impossible, unofficially insane) with another PM as my default to convert from debian to arch years ago.
This is gonna be fun, or hellish, idk I'll find out.
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The Linux Ship of Theseus
-
pick any distro and install it.
-
Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.
System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).
No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.
Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.
Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.
Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.
Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.
Easymode: pick a fedora ublue distro and go from bazzite to silver blue
::: spoiler Title
You can rebase with a single command I think.
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So, any distro to any other distro?
- Installs Fedora Silverblue
- Rebases to Bazzite
Jobs done chief!
Bazzite on GNOME? Rebasing from GNOME to KDE causes so many headaches. Ask me how I know (yes I'm aware they tell you not too).
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I've done the Arch to Artix. It wasn't hard, per se, but it took a while. I think that should be Medium, because Artix isn't just an Arch derivative.
In fact, might I suggest a different way of looking at the difficulties?
- Replacing the package manager: Hard.
- Replacing the package manager without a live USB: Extreme.
- Going from a basic systemd-based distro (init, log, cron) to anything else: Hard
- Going from a systemd distro that's bought into the entire systemd stack, including home and boot: Extreme
- Going from one init to another: Medium
- Changing boot systems: grub to UEFI, for example: Easy.
- Replacing all GNU tools with other things: Extreme (mainly because of script expectations).
And so on. You get 1 point for Easy, 2 for Medium, 4 for Hard, and 8 for Extreme. Add 'em up, go for a high score.
I don't think rolling your own is that hard, TBH, unless you're expected to also build a package manager. If maintaining it would be harder than building it.
I like it
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I would watch a YouTube series doing this
Not quite the same but you might like the Linux from Nothing series, building out a Linux install from first principles.
Obviously lots of linux youtubers have done videos on linux from scratch too but the step by step nature is pretty enjoyable to watch.
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