6* months away now. If you're on 10, do you plan to upgrade? Make the jump to Linux?
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How do I even get started? Do I just install Mint and figure it out from there? Linux seems so complicated but it's been a decade since I last tried. Nowadays, I feel old and this seems like it needs too much research
Mint
I honestly think mint is an outdated suggestion for beginners, I think immutability is extremely important for someone who is just starting out, as well as starting on KDE since it’s by far the most developed DE that isn’t gnome and their… design decisions are unfortunate for people coming from windows.
I don’t think we should be recommending mint to beginners anymore, if mint makes an immutable, up to date KDE distro, that’ll change, but until then, I think bazzite is objectively a better starting place for beginners.
The mere fact that it generates a new system for you on update and lets you switch between and rollback automatically is enough for me to say it’s better, but it also has more up to date software, and tons of guides (fedora is one of the most popular distros, and bazzite is essentially identical except with some QoL upgrades).
How common is the story of “I was new to linux and completely broke it”? that’s not a good user experience for someone who’s just starting, it’s intimidating, scary, and I just don’t think it’s the best in the modern era. There’s something to be said about learning from these mistakes, but bazzite essentially makes these mistakes impossible.
Furthermore because of the way bazzite works, package management is completely graphical and requires essentially no intervention on the users part, flathub and immutability pair excellently for this reason.
Cinnamon (the default mint environment) doesn’t and won’t support HDR, the security/performance improvements from wayland, mixed refresh rate displays, mixed DPI displays, fractional scaling, and many other things for a very very long time if at all. I don’t understand the usecase for cinnamon tbh, xfce is great if you need performance but don’t want to make major sacrifices, lmde is great if you need A LOT of performance, cinnamon isn’t particularly performant and just a strictly worse version of kde in my eyes from the perspective of a beginner, anyway.
I have 15 years of linux experience and am willing to infinitely troubleshoot if you add me on matrix.
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It's going to be purchase a new hard drive and then jump to Linux Mint this August.
It's not an experience I am looking forward to (5080S, I do a lot of modding, and enjoy fangames/indie games which do not always play nice with linux) but needs must - the Linux community in general is very friendly, so we'll get through it, even if the first 6 months are rough. I'll keep the dual boot and push the windows partition to 11 if needed by work, that way I can put off rewriting my elderly access database for another few years.
Honestly, Microsoft are committing suicide when it comes to home users. It won't be sudden, but the wheels are turning, all the IT savvy folks are switching people over (already did my aunt's potato, mum's demi-tato is next week). Eventually, a tipping point will be reached and offices will start switching - I hope that day comes before I die of old age!
Mint
I honestly think mint is an outdated suggestion for beginners, I think immutability is extremely important for someone who is just starting out, as well as starting on KDE since it’s by far the most developed DE that isn’t gnome and their… design decisions are unfortunate for people coming from windows.
I don’t think we should be recommending mint to beginners anymore, if mint makes an immutable, up to date KDE distro, that’ll change, but until then, I think bazzite is objectively a better starting place for beginners.
The mere fact that it generates a new system for you on update and lets you switch between and rollback automatically is enough for me to say it’s better, but it also has more up to date software, and tons of guides (fedora is one of the most popular distros, and bazzite is essentially identical except with some QoL upgrades).
How common is the story of “I was new to linux and completely broke it”? that’s not a good user experience for someone who’s just starting, it’s intimidating, scary, and I just don’t think it’s the best in the modern era. There’s something to be said about learning from these mistakes, but bazzite essentially makes these mistakes impossible.
Furthermore because of the way bazzite works, package management is completely graphical and requires essentially no intervention on the users part, flathub and immutability pair excellently for this reason.
Cinnamon (the default mint environment) doesn’t and won’t support HDR, the security/performance improvements from wayland, mixed refresh rate displays, mixed DPI displays, fractional scaling, and many other things for a very very long time if at all. I don’t understand the usecase for cinnamon tbh, xfce is great if you need performance but don’t want to make major sacrifices, lmde is great if you need A LOT of performance, cinnamon isn’t particularly performant and just a strictly worse version of kde in my eyes from the perspective of a beginner, anyway.
I have 15 years of linux experience and am willing to infinitely troubleshoot if you add me on matrix.
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Yeah Manjaro + KDE is kinda what I was thinking, thanks!
Manjaro is legitimately a terrible choice, https://github.com/arindas/manjarno
I used to give manjaro to a lot of people because i was an arch user and supported a bunch of linux users, it was a massive mistake, arch is just a strictly better version of manjaro, the things manjaro claims to do it doesn't do well because it's just kind of hacked onto arch. Let me give you an example of something stupid that manjaro does:
normally, in linux, all packages are upgraded centrally, however, manjaro has decided to make an exception for the kernel, and now the kernel is versioned, and each version upgrades separately... this can result in you being stuck with an ancient kernel. I had to go into peoples computers, boot into a console, manually swap out the kernel, and put on the latest one, because the updater wouldn't update due to the newest drivers being incompatible with the old kernel.
This happened enough times, that and the concerns raised in manjarno make me think it really isn't for anyone.
If you're enough of an expert to fix these things... just use arch, it's strictly better. If you don't know what you're doing, an arch based distro is a terrible choice and you should go with bazzite.
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I went to Manjaro (Arch) with KDE from Mint about 5 months ago, and it's been nearly flawless, allowed me to easily install a real time processing kernel for audio production, and it's run every game I've thrown at it better than Winblows.
Manjaro is legitimately a terrible choice and should not be recommended, https://github.com/arindas/manjarno
If it works for you, that's great, but you're lucky so far and it's a ticking timebomb.
I used to give manjaro to a lot of people because i was an arch user and supported a bunch of linux users, it was a massive mistake, arch is just a strictly better version of manjaro, the things manjaro claims to do it doesn't do well because it's just kind of hacked onto arch. Let me give you an example of something stupid that manjaro does:
normally, in linux, all packages are upgraded centrally, however, manjaro has decided to make an exception for the kernel, and now the kernel is versioned, and each version upgrades separately... this can result in you being stuck with an ancient kernel. I had to go into peoples computers, boot into a console, manually swap out the kernel, and put on the latest one, because the updater wouldn't update due to the newest drivers being incompatible with the old kernel.
This happened enough times, that and the concerns raised in manjarno make me think it really isn't for anyone. The team is laughably incompetent (they can't even get their certs sorted out? really?) and you don't want an incompetent team running your desktop.
If you're enough of an expert to fix these things... just use arch, it's strictly better. If you don't know what you're doing, an arch based distro is a terrible choice and you should go with bazzite.
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So many perfectly working older computers are going to be headed to the landfill as e-waste. That's the horrible part.
What a waste tech dollars just to play some stupid game.
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My laptop still works perfectly well so if Microsoft don't want to support it any more then I'll bung Linux on it. I've already got my Mint stick ready, just need to get round to it.
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How to give it a go:
- Get a 256GB SSD and install it on your computer alongside the existing drives.
- Install a gaming-oriented Linux distro such as Pop!OS, Bazzite, SteamOS or similar, on that drive (don't let it touch any other drive - those things generally have an install mode were you just tell it "install in this drive" which will ignore all other drives)
- Unless your machine is 10 years old or older, during boot you can press a key (generally F8) and the BIOS will pop-up a boot menu that lets you choose which OS you want start booting (do it again at a later date if you want to change it back). If your machine is old you might actually have to go into the BIOS and change the boot EFI (or if even older, boot drive) there.
- Use launchers such as Steam and a Lutris since they come with per-game install scripts that make sure Proton/Wine is properly configured, so that for most game you don't have to do any tweaking at all for them to run - it's just install and launch.
- If it all works fine and you're satisfied with it, get a bigger SSD and install it alongside the rest. Make one big partition in it and mount you home directory there (at this point you will have to go down to the CLI to copy over your home directory). You'll need this drive because of all the space you'll be using for games (both Steam and Lutris will put them under your home directory) especially modern ones.
As long as you give a dedicated drive to Linux and (if on an old machine before EFI) do not let it install a boot sector anywhere else but that drive, the risk exposure is limited to having spent 20 or 30 bucks on a 256GB SSD and then it turns out Linux is still not good enough for you.
When NOT to do it:
- If you don't know what a BIOS is or that you can press a key to get into it.
- If you don't know how to install a new drive on your machine (or even what kind of drive format it takes) and don't have somebody who can do it for you.
- If you don't actually have the free slot for the new drive (for example, notebooks generally only have 2 slots, sometimes only 1).
Thank you I'm saving this whole thread
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Got a new laptop about a month ago. Put Fedora Bluefin on it immediately. Couple other computers/server have been running Debian flavors for year or two.
My main desktop is still Windows, but I literally never use it, especially since getting the laptop. I'll switch it over when I get time.
I'm still tied to windows for three apps. I've found a Linux replacement for one, I just haven't done the work to convert the database.
Another one I'm trying to run it's Android version in a waydroid docker, but I'm hitting walls, no time to dig deeper.
And the last one has no replacement, and it's too delicate to try emulating, I don't want to nuke the shared database it's attached to, it's not worth the headache. So I keep a Windows VM around for the once a month I need to use that program for
️I'm purposely being vague about the programs, they are very identifying, but trust me there's no alternatives.
Even with all that, I'm not looking back, win11 sucks.
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drivers are notoriously troublesome on Linux
I dunno man, Debian makes it pretty easy.
1 - Prerequisites)
x64 Kernel headers:
sudo apt install linux-headers-amd642 - Debian 12 Installation)
Disable secure boot & add ‘Contrib’ repository to sources list:
sudo deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmwareInstall Nvidia driver
sudo apt install nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfreeRestart system.
Bonus points for optimal performance follow CUDA doc & OptiX doc for Ray-Tracing & utilization of Nvidia cuda cores.
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It's not like that shits gonna make your computer explode the day they end support lol
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Mint
I honestly think mint is an outdated suggestion for beginners, I think immutability is extremely important for someone who is just starting out, as well as starting on KDE since it’s by far the most developed DE that isn’t gnome and their… design decisions are unfortunate for people coming from windows.
I don’t think we should be recommending mint to beginners anymore, if mint makes an immutable, up to date KDE distro, that’ll change, but until then, I think bazzite is objectively a better starting place for beginners.
The mere fact that it generates a new system for you on update and lets you switch between and rollback automatically is enough for me to say it’s better, but it also has more up to date software, and tons of guides (fedora is one of the most popular distros, and bazzite is essentially identical except with some QoL upgrades).
How common is the story of “I was new to linux and completely broke it”? that’s not a good user experience for someone who’s just starting, it’s intimidating, scary, and I just don’t think it’s the best in the modern era. There’s something to be said about learning from these mistakes, but bazzite essentially makes these mistakes impossible.
Furthermore because of the way bazzite works, package management is completely graphical and requires essentially no intervention on the users part, flathub and immutability pair excellently for this reason.
Cinnamon (the default mint environment) doesn’t and won’t support HDR, the security/performance improvements from wayland, mixed refresh rate displays, mixed DPI displays, fractional scaling, and many other things for a very very long time if at all. I don’t understand the usecase for cinnamon tbh, xfce is great if you need performance but don’t want to make major sacrifices, lmde is great if you need A LOT of performance, cinnamon isn’t particularly performant and just a strictly worse version of kde in my eyes from the perspective of a beginner, anyway.
I have 15 years of linux experience and am willing to infinitely troubleshoot if you add me on matrix.
I have to disagree here. I find using Cinnamon is very close to using windows. Everything hardware wise pretty much runs out of the box on all desktops and laptops I have installed it on. Have been using it for years.
The one thing I can't comment on is hdpi. I never owned a high enough resolution screen to have problems with scaling I guess, although I do have a three monitor setup.
Immutability might be nice, but I think it's also personal preference. Windows doesn't have it so it might be a strange feature to new users coming from Windows. -
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I'm in Windows 11. I have regret it, but after so many tweaks of the system, removing telemetries, changing menus, and other Windows shit, i had not the energy to move back to Windows 10.
Only OS change i am willing to make is to move to Linux, but gaming is not there yet, and am now trying to move from big proprietary companies to FOSS, so time is needed.
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I have to disagree here. I find using Cinnamon is very close to using windows. Everything hardware wise pretty much runs out of the box on all desktops and laptops I have installed it on. Have been using it for years.
The one thing I can't comment on is hdpi. I never owned a high enough resolution screen to have problems with scaling I guess, although I do have a three monitor setup.
Immutability might be nice, but I think it's also personal preference. Windows doesn't have it so it might be a strange feature to new users coming from Windows.I have to disagree here. I find using Cinnamon is very close to using windows.
So is KDE, that's why I recommend it over cinnamon.
Everything hardware wise pretty much runs out of the box on all desktops and laptops I have installed it on.
That has nothing to do with your desktop environment!
Have been using it for years.
Just because you're familiar with it doesn't mean it's the best choice for beginners. People want HDR, mixed refresh rates, and mixed DPI displays to work properly, they do on KDE, they possibly never will on cinnamon.
Immutability might be nice, but I think it’s also personal preference. Windows doesn’t have it so it might be a strange feature to new users coming from Windows.
Windows does have it... actually, it only has it. There's no way to turn it off. And it's not a personal preference thing at all, it's objectively superior for a beginner, and anything you can do with a normal distro can still be done with an immutable one.
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The problem is that as soon as a security issue is found on windows 10 it won't be fixed, it is perpetual. In Windows 11 it will probably be fixed before you even know it exists.
You seem awfully optimistic about Microsoft's response time lol.
How many people are out there today with broken locks on their doors or windows? How many stores do you think close every night with the minimum wage worker forgetting to lock up properly? How many people out their use incredibly weak passwords, share their credentials with others, or leave everything on post-it notes?
Security is a cost-benefit analysis. Depending on what exactly this hypothetical exploit requires I might very well be comfortable running Windows 10 anyways. The vast majority of security exploits require physical access to the machine- we only hear about the remote ones more often because they are scarier.
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Didn't they get rid of some 11 requirements? Won't most regular people just do the upgrade to 11?
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I was running mint, but had to go back to windows because of a hardware bug I'm still trying to fix where my PC will randomly not wake up from sleep and that results in corrupted drives, which windows can fix with it's automated repair at boot, but Linux has done commands that I need to run and if I fuck it up it would fuck my computer up even more, so until I can fix the hardware bug I'm stuck on windows, but by fuck do I hate it. I prefer Linux so much more over windows, so much more convenient, efficient, personalizable and it actually works in many places where windows simply doesn't even with a lot of fiddling around in settings and shit
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I think it'll feel like pop os. Pretty much set up for gaming right out of the box, but anything deeper and you're forced to touch the terminal. What I do think it has going for it however is the publicity of Steam, plus a promise on Steam's part to continue to dump a bunch of resources in to making it a better experience. I'm not expecting mass migrations, but it will likely be what gets all the folks on the fence to switch over, at least among gamers
Terminal usage is inevitable with Linux. It's not as scary as it seems and can actually create a sense of accomplishment when you use it. Pop is a solid distro for sure but you don't need a "gaming distro" to game on Linux these days (not that Pop is a gaming distro specifically). There's actually a Linux Experiment video where he proves this with a thorough test. All major distros work fine for gaming.
I encourage people to not go for SteamOS unless you're setting up a PC you want to use solely as a home console, or if you're flashing it to a different handheld.
That, all coming from a big Valve fan. I simply don't think it's a good idea for people to get their hopes up over SteamOS somehow being a no-terminal, peak gaming Linux experience. I also don't think it's a good idea to hold off until SteamOS gets its full PC release, because most major distros today will work just as well. It'd literally only benefit people to start learning Linux now so that by the full SteamOS launch, they'll be more informed as to whether it'll be something they'll find useful enough to use as a daily driver.
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I'm in Windows 11. I have regret it, but after so many tweaks of the system, removing telemetries, changing menus, and other Windows shit, i had not the energy to move back to Windows 10.
Only OS change i am willing to make is to move to Linux, but gaming is not there yet, and am now trying to move from big proprietary companies to FOSS, so time is needed.
May i ask why gaming on linux isn't for you ?
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Upgrade tool says my hardware isn't supported, seems like I can enable TPM on my motherboard but it doesn't work right for some reason I think I managed to install Windows 10 without secure boot or something, not sure if those two are even related. I was thinking maybe I'd have to reinstall windows 10 with those modules enabled in order to upgrade to windows 11... Has anyone else encountered something similar?
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It's not like that shits gonna make your computer explode the day they end support lol
Sure, but I wouldn't recommend using a system that gets no security updates. Its more than worth upgrading or switching to linux to avoid that.
