Should I stop using Telegram?
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As for WhatsApp, it's true that being Meta they collect everything they can, mostly metadata, but don't they still implement the same end-to-end encryption as Signal? So, at least the actual content is your messages and calls should be truly private, i.e. out of reach even of Meta (and let's say, all of this using a phone with no google e.g. graphene or lineage or calyxos). Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't know about the algorithm but the app could be able to read the contents and open them up to scrutiny by meta. I wouldnt put it beyond them, especially since the signal app is open source and whatsapp isnt so we wouldnt know.
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From what I understand, there was no hack nor fork in the recent news about Signal, it was human error, somebody literally invited the wrong person to the chat
Signal is still secure.
Haha yep inviting the wrong person was absolutely the big issue. I think I read something about it being an unofficial fork out of Israel though, but everything moves so fast these days it's hard to keep up
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WhatsApp is more secure by design, but one suspects that Meta is up to something. But I suppose to whatever extent it's possible to trust Meta, they are nonetheless likely a better guarantor of your security than Telegram is
Meta don't need to see your chats to get a lot of value out of WhatsApp.
They can see who you message (the phone number) and from there they can probably ~90% of the time identify who that person is via Facebook/Instagram databases.
They can see who you message when, and how often you message them, and what time of day you send and recieve messages - all of that is very valuable to help them create an advertising profile for you. -
Specially with all the recent scrutiny on it in the news, hackers are figuring out ways in.
I'm assuming you mean the US gov't debacle? It's already been proven that they were using a fork, not the genuine Signal app. The fork was built with a back door. As far as I'm aware (and please correct me if I'm wrong) Signal has yet to be hacked and is currently among the most secure options.
It's almost like the US gov't might benefit from convincing its citizens that the fully encrypted messaging app is dangerous so they should just go back to Whatsapp and Telegram.
BS. The US govt actively tells people to use Signal. Take what you will from that.
And there was a recent report about groups and QR codes. And another about CDN. Look em up.
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there's no backdoor in signal, this is pure FUD. give us even a single source
Did I say there’s a back door? My bad. I meant, there’s probably a zero say that we don’t even know about.
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I hate Facebook but isn't WhatsApp end to end encrypted by default? I know telegram is not.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]End to end encrypted doesn't mean they don't potentially store a copy of the keys somewhere. With proprietary software, you never know what it's actually doing since you can't verify the code does what it says on the tin.
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I'm from Mexico, and the most used chat application is WhatsApp. It's used for EVERYTHING. I use Telegram only for contacting my family members (both my parents and my brother). They also use it only for this family chat. All my (and their) contacts use WhatsApp instead.
Now with the news that Telegram will collaborate with Twitter, I feel that I should delete it. Not that Zuck is any better than Musk, but still...
Also I don't think it's worth the effort to teach my parents yet another messaging app, like signal.
I personally avoid telegram for anything sensitive or personal. Because there is no end to end encryption. You should move to Signal.
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I'm from Mexico, and the most used chat application is WhatsApp. It's used for EVERYTHING. I use Telegram only for contacting my family members (both my parents and my brother). They also use it only for this family chat. All my (and their) contacts use WhatsApp instead.
Now with the news that Telegram will collaborate with Twitter, I feel that I should delete it. Not that Zuck is any better than Musk, but still...
Also I don't think it's worth the effort to teach my parents yet another messaging app, like signal.
I downloaded telegram about a year ago when I first heard about it. There is a feature to find and talk to people in the same area as me. It was all just escorts with nudes as their profile pics. I'm honestly surprised Google and Apple allowed it on their stores.
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Did I say there’s a back door? My bad. I meant, there’s probably a zero say that we don’t even know about.
you could say that about literally any project. is the zero day in the room with us together with the alleged hackers living in the server room?
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I'm from Mexico, and the most used chat application is WhatsApp. It's used for EVERYTHING. I use Telegram only for contacting my family members (both my parents and my brother). They also use it only for this family chat. All my (and their) contacts use WhatsApp instead.
Now with the news that Telegram will collaborate with Twitter, I feel that I should delete it. Not that Zuck is any better than Musk, but still...
Also I don't think it's worth the effort to teach my parents yet another messaging app, like signal.
Here’s another comment endorsing Signal.
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I'm from Mexico, and the most used chat application is WhatsApp. It's used for EVERYTHING. I use Telegram only for contacting my family members (both my parents and my brother). They also use it only for this family chat. All my (and their) contacts use WhatsApp instead.
Now with the news that Telegram will collaborate with Twitter, I feel that I should delete it. Not that Zuck is any better than Musk, but still...
Also I don't think it's worth the effort to teach my parents yet another messaging app, like signal.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Switch to Signal. It's not like there's anything to learn, the UI isn't all that different from WhatsApp
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but how to find groups?
For public groups you probably want something like Matrix.org instead. Also open source, also supports E2E encryption
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I’ve been all in on telegram for some time now. Signal just doesn’t feel like it’s iterating fast enough. Few years ago, telegram was blazing through and signal was just a disgusting UI meant to make you feel good that you’re using encryption. That has changed.
The xAI news is a pretty big nail in the coffin. But literally every other alternative is shit. WhatsApp is fully owned and definitely farmed by Zuck for data. Their claims of encryption have eroded by everything they’ve done in AI.
Signal is definitely said to be encrypted. But you can bet there’s a back door in there. Specially with all the recent scrutiny on it in the news, hackers are figuring out ways in.
What’s even left to use?
Sorry, don’t have a solution for you. But the world is ready for another messenger - one that actually cares about people and brings features that people like. Heck, I’ll even pay for it, just like I’ve been paying for telegram.
Signal just doesn’t feel like it’s iterating fast enough.
Development is always a lot harder when you need to consider all the privacy aspects. When you don't, you can be Telegram and give fancy features real fast.
you can bet there’s a back door in there
I mean you can educate yourself about cryptography and find the "backdoor", the source code is out there for both the server and the client. And I assure you there are a lot of people in academia who would love to do that and get lots of citations, but no one has ever done so, so maybe there is none? That is if we don't consider all the security audit commisioned by Signal itself on its app/server.
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I'm from Mexico, and the most used chat application is WhatsApp. It's used for EVERYTHING. I use Telegram only for contacting my family members (both my parents and my brother). They also use it only for this family chat. All my (and their) contacts use WhatsApp instead.
Now with the news that Telegram will collaborate with Twitter, I feel that I should delete it. Not that Zuck is any better than Musk, but still...
Also I don't think it's worth the effort to teach my parents yet another messaging app, like signal.
Yes. It's addictive.
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I'm from Mexico, and the most used chat application is WhatsApp. It's used for EVERYTHING. I use Telegram only for contacting my family members (both my parents and my brother). They also use it only for this family chat. All my (and their) contacts use WhatsApp instead.
Now with the news that Telegram will collaborate with Twitter, I feel that I should delete it. Not that Zuck is any better than Musk, but still...
Also I don't think it's worth the effort to teach my parents yet another messaging app, like signal.
Threema. And don’t forget, real privacy and security, with centralized services, is never free. The app is tested by third party and is open source. And, you don’t have to share your phone number, unlike with Signal.
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Threema. And don’t forget, real privacy and security, with centralized services, is never free. The app is tested by third party and is open source. And, you don’t have to share your phone number, unlike with Signal.
You no longer have to share your phone number in signal. They added a unique user identifier a while ago that you can share to add new contacts. This is not permanent by the way, you can change this user identifier anytime.
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Its what makes it more secure. Why do you need a chat app that allows your parents to accidentally stumble into a group of con artists or kids to stumble into things they shouldn't be exposed to? It's a messaging app, not gamer group chat.
This is what puts is way ahead of the others.
Also, making it harder for pedophiles to find each other and groups where they can share their shit is a good way to defeat all the shitty "think about the children" laws that European countries are constantly trying to pass to make encryption illegal
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"Selectively" is a new word that wasn't mentioned in the post I replied to. I get that it's better to not have access to the data at all, and lying to customers is shitty, etc. I use signal and not telegram. But 'refusing to comply with demands from other groups for data access is correct behavior' was my only argument. Nothing about equivalence
It might be correct behavior but when there are laws in place to force the company to comply, actually having the data is a problem.
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It usually wasn't conversations that were at issue. People would engage in criminals acts, such as trading child sexual abuse media in large unencrypted group chats. Law enforcement would find links to those chats, join them, and observe criminal acts, leading to court orders to Telegram to disclose whatever identifying information it had about the offenders, such as phone numbers and IP addresses.
Telegram intentionally split storage of that kind of information across jurisdictions that do not cooperate so that it was effectively impossible to obtain orders for all of them. They bragged their marketing materials that they have never complied with a court order for user information. Taken as a whole, I see that as intentionally facilitating child abuse.
Signal's approach is pretty much the inverse; rather than hoard data about users and shield people they know have done evil, Signal has ensured that it does not know the contents of any conversation, nor anything about users other than when they created the account and most recently accessed it.
IIRC Signal stated that they can collect IPs of some users if asked by a judge but that's about it (not retroactively). Which imo also further proves that they actually value privacy without using it as an excuse to make money from people doing truly evil shit
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I'm from Mexico, and the most used chat application is WhatsApp. It's used for EVERYTHING. I use Telegram only for contacting my family members (both my parents and my brother). They also use it only for this family chat. All my (and their) contacts use WhatsApp instead.
Now with the news that Telegram will collaborate with Twitter, I feel that I should delete it. Not that Zuck is any better than Musk, but still...
Also I don't think it's worth the effort to teach my parents yet another messaging app, like signal.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]If you're familiar in any capacity with self hosted tech. Id suggest checking out matrix servers. I setup one for family and friends a few months back. Currently it's only running on a 2 core 8 gig ram vps with around 15 regular users, and ticks over fine. It's routinely used as a phone chat client like WhatsApp, as well as for voice channels instead of discord.
You can utilise multiple different clients; but I would suggest element, as they're the closest to WhatsApp, and therefore the easiest for people to adopt. (Afaik, it's the only matrix client with voice & video call support too).
Matrix servers run on the concept of decentralised federated servers, with the idea that as the technology expands, admins can federate with other matrix servers and allow cross communication (in much the same way the fediverse works).
