Bricked up
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You have two opposing groups, let's call them a and B. Group a says "we dont think group b has a right to exist and we are prepared to get violent" and group b says "we will never use violence". How long do you expect group b to last?
Fascists are mercifully not common where I live, but if I hear one mouthing off they're going to get a savage beating.
Surely the answer is both sides decided the other doesnt have a right to exist. There's no difference between labeling someone a Nazi or labeling someone trans when the only point is to excuse violence on that group.
People are letting their emotions cloud their better judgment, or they haven't developed better judgment yet. Unfortunately people think very short term and often mold reasoning around their actions after the fact.
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No.
Even animals don't deserve to be treated violently.
That implies animals are lesser than fascists.
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Surely the answer is both sides decided the other doesnt have a right to exist. There's no difference between labeling someone a Nazi or labeling someone trans when the only point is to excuse violence on that group.
People are letting their emotions cloud their better judgment, or they haven't developed better judgment yet. Unfortunately people think very short term and often mold reasoning around their actions after the fact.
A trans person is a trans person does not have a choice about their identity. Being a nazi is a choice you make because you want to hate people. A nazi merely needs to decide not to be a cunt and the problem resolves itself. The only way a trans person can make peace with a nazi is by hiding who they are and living a lie. It's not the same. And if you think it is then either A: you're delusional or B: you know I'm right but you're also a nazi.
To put it a different way, should black people go around in white face to make the kkk happy?
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A trans person is a trans person does not have a choice about their identity. Being a nazi is a choice you make because you want to hate people. A nazi merely needs to decide not to be a cunt and the problem resolves itself. The only way a trans person can make peace with a nazi is by hiding who they are and living a lie. It's not the same. And if you think it is then either A: you're delusional or B: you know I'm right but you're also a nazi.
To put it a different way, should black people go around in white face to make the kkk happy?
They are similar in american society because both would argue they have a right to exist, and both are targets for violence in public if they are overt about it. I'm simply saying neither should be attacked, the whole point is to coexist. People need to learn how to de-escalate and create bridges, not hit each other in the face with bricks.
Edit to answer your question: Obviously not, black people don't want to be white people. Trans people do want to pass as a specific gender.
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What is the voice of reason for fascists?
It's a good question.
One problem with "fascists should be met w violence" is in the lack of definition for fascist. I can tell you, in my experience, saying something like "I don't want universal healthcare" is enough to earn me the label of "fascist" in leftwing forums like Lemmy and Reddit.
If the logic is "people who disagree are fascists, and fascists deserve violence" or more simply "people who disagree deserve violence"... well isn't that what fascists say??
Do you agree that that example at least highlights a serious problem in the chain of logic?
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It's a good question.
One problem with "fascists should be met w violence" is in the lack of definition for fascist. I can tell you, in my experience, saying something like "I don't want universal healthcare" is enough to earn me the label of "fascist" in leftwing forums like Lemmy and Reddit.
If the logic is "people who disagree are fascists, and fascists deserve violence" or more simply "people who disagree deserve violence"... well isn't that what fascists say??
Do you agree that that example at least highlights a serious problem in the chain of logic?
No, that’s you and others being petty, that’s not fascism. If you want other people to be dead on the basis of who they were born as and attempt to make those ideals a reality you are a fascist and death for you would be a net positive. Don’t be a crybaby, be realistic and stop being such a reactionary child.
Edit: And that is not reason, that is just myopic self justification. If you have the problem that people are constantly calling you a fascist and you’re not arguing for death camps and absolute authoritarianism, then the thing that’s going on is that you’re just an insufferable and controlling asshole.
Edit: Also, point blank, supporting fascists makes you a fascist.
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They are similar in american society because both would argue they have a right to exist, and both are targets for violence in public if they are overt about it. I'm simply saying neither should be attacked, the whole point is to coexist. People need to learn how to de-escalate and create bridges, not hit each other in the face with bricks.
Edit to answer your question: Obviously not, black people don't want to be white people. Trans people do want to pass as a specific gender.
Fascism is an ideology based on the oppression of other people. The whole ideology is based around not coexisting with other people. And it's not just trans people fascists have a problem with. It's literally anyone who isn't straight, white and also a fascist.
The only way to coexist with fascists is to pretend to be one at which point, what you're doing is worse than violence you're pretending there isn't a problem and allowing them to hurt other people. Fascists choose violence as their plan A. If you allow them to spew their hate you might as well lynch an immigrant yourself.
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No, that’s you and others being petty, that’s not fascism. If you want other people to be dead on the basis of who they were born as and attempt to make those ideals a reality you are a fascist and death for you would be a net positive. Don’t be a crybaby, be realistic and stop being such a reactionary child.
Edit: And that is not reason, that is just myopic self justification. If you have the problem that people are constantly calling you a fascist and you’re not arguing for death camps and absolute authoritarianism, then the thing that’s going on is that you’re just an insufferable and controlling asshole.
Edit: Also, point blank, supporting fascists makes you a fascist.
Im being a crybaby? Sorry, im not following.
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Im being a crybaby? Sorry, im not following.
Yup. Catch on.
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Fascism is an ideology based on the oppression of other people. The whole ideology is based around not coexisting with other people. And it's not just trans people fascists have a problem with. It's literally anyone who isn't straight, white and also a fascist.
The only way to coexist with fascists is to pretend to be one at which point, what you're doing is worse than violence you're pretending there isn't a problem and allowing them to hurt other people. Fascists choose violence as their plan A. If you allow them to spew their hate you might as well lynch an immigrant yourself.
You can't coexist with them because you label them as fascists whether it makes sense or not. You sound just as unhinged as the caricature of others you are describing as fascism.
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Yup. Catch on.
Yeah im trying. What did I say/do?
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Yeah im trying. What did I say/do?
“It's a good question.
One problem with "fascists should be met w violence" is in the lack of definition for fascist. I can tell you, in my experience, saying something like "I don't want universal healthcare" is enough to earn me the label of "fascist" in leftwing forums like Lemmy and Reddit.
If the logic is "people who disagree are fascists, and fascists deserve violence" or more simply "people who disagree deserve violence"... well isn't that what fascists say??
Do you agree that that example at least highlights a serious problem in the chain of logic?”
That. That is a very long winded way to tell people you are a thin skinned crybaby who thinks criticism is persecution.
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You can't coexist with them because you label them as fascists whether it makes sense or not. You sound just as unhinged as the caricature of others you are describing as fascism.
I'm not playing chess anymore, it's pointless.
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I'm not playing chess anymore, it's pointless.
"I'm gonna stay angry and uncompromising, just like I planned."
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"I'm gonna stay angry and uncompromising, just like I planned."
If you were in charge of Britain in the second world war, how would you have handled the rise of nazi Germany?
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If you were in charge of Britain in the second world war, how would you have handled the rise of nazi Germany?
The exact same way it was, which is to withhold violence unless you or an ally you have sworn to defend is attacked.
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The exact same way it was, which is to withhold violence unless you or an ally you have sworn to defend is attacked.
So to use violence then? Because the thing with fascism is that there are exactly 0 instances of fascist regimes existing peacefully. Not a single one. Fascism requires violence to work. It unites people in hatred of minority groups. The reason Putin is still waging war today despite having lost several hundred thousand troops, most of Russia's armoured vehicles, a third of their strategic bomber fleet, half the black sea navy, and almost all international trade is because if he stops then his loyal followers will no longer fall in line. He needs to frame NATO as being the reason people's lives are shit. Hitler needed to vilify the Jews because without a scapegoat he wouldn't be able to get people to rally behind him. Pol pot and Stalin used academics as their scapegoats. But the common thread here is that fascism requires the persecution of one or more minority groups to survive. So yeah violence is the only option when dealing with fascists the only real choice is whether it's done to the fascists or someone who hasn't done anything wrong and just wants to live their life in peace.
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So if you were walking through the streets of Mariupol and saw a russian soldier violently raping a child (I use this example because it's not uncommon) you'd, what, ask them nicely to stop, let them get on with it?
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That implies animals are lesser than fascists.
it implies violence is unacceptable towards life
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So to use violence then? Because the thing with fascism is that there are exactly 0 instances of fascist regimes existing peacefully. Not a single one. Fascism requires violence to work. It unites people in hatred of minority groups. The reason Putin is still waging war today despite having lost several hundred thousand troops, most of Russia's armoured vehicles, a third of their strategic bomber fleet, half the black sea navy, and almost all international trade is because if he stops then his loyal followers will no longer fall in line. He needs to frame NATO as being the reason people's lives are shit. Hitler needed to vilify the Jews because without a scapegoat he wouldn't be able to get people to rally behind him. Pol pot and Stalin used academics as their scapegoats. But the common thread here is that fascism requires the persecution of one or more minority groups to survive. So yeah violence is the only option when dealing with fascists the only real choice is whether it's done to the fascists or someone who hasn't done anything wrong and just wants to live their life in peace.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Carl Schmitt literally wrote the book on fascism as an ideology. Hell, he was even in the Nazi Party, sort of like the Curtis Yarvin of his time. Which is interesting because Yarvin kind of idolizes Schmitt and quotes him frequently. Being in the Nazi Party didn't last very long, though, as he was forewarned that soon he was to be ousted from his role in the Party, as the regime no longer had need of philosophers, and he was also concerned that he would be outed as a Hegelian.
