Based muslim child
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Mormons used to (some still do) practice polygamy and we had just as much, if not more of a problem with their practices as we do with "foreigners".
From my perspective as another polyamorous person, I think polygamy is kinda fucked up, at least in the ways it manifests today. It's an inequitable power dynamic that relies on the exploitation of women. I'm all about subversion and defiance of hierarchies. Polygamy reinforces those hierarchies
Just to be clear, I see polygamy as bad only because of the women oppression aspect. But the world is a big place and history is long, so I wouldn't be surprised if at some point there was some system that allowed for polygamy without oppressing women. Mentioning mormons - don't you think they can be seen as another weird different group - and therefore be also object of xenophobia? Notice I intentionally didn't use the word racism, what I mean is just the sentiment that people doing things differently than my group must be deadly wrong.
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Most cryptobros don't give a shit about the moral or ethical implications of what crypto they invest in, what they represent, etc. They just want line go up. No different than investors who invest in diverse ranges of companies. Hedge funds will invest in fossil fuel giants right alongside ecotech startups. The only thing that matters is return.
Hooray for non-tribalism?
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Consent under duress or desperation is not consent. That’s why I’m pointing out that if the polygamy only ever goes one way, there is an obvious power imbalance that prevents consent from being possible.
Are you arguing that all polygamous Muslim marriages are happening under duress?
If so, that’s a sweeping generalisation and a false statement. The polygamy being one-way doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not consensual.
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Are you arguing that all polygamous Muslim marriages are happening under duress?
If so, that’s a sweeping generalisation and a false statement. The polygamy being one-way doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not consensual.
Then why can’t people consent in the other direction?
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Two wives?
That must be unbearable.
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Then why can’t people consent in the other direction?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Because the parties involved embrace a religion that prohibits it, and they willingly consent to that restriction by extension.
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Because the parties involved embrace a religion that prohibits it, and they willingly consent to that restriction by extension.
Again, consent under duress is not consent. You can’t consent to a religion if leaving it causes you to be shunned by your family and community.
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Hooray for non-tribalism?
I think it’s just a slight step up above greater fool theory. The only difference is that they’re better charlatans by pretending to participate in either tribe, still enforcing the tribal culture.
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Again, consent under duress is not consent. You can’t consent to a religion if leaving it causes you to be shunned by your family and community.
You can’t consent to a religion if leaving it causes you to be shunned by your family and community.
Then, according to that logic, not a single person who believes in a mainstream/typical religion is consenting to it, because many families and communities will shun you if you leave their religion. That is a social construct and may or may not happen depending on many factors.
Are you specifically talking about the concept of apostasy in Islam and how it’s supposedly punishable by death?
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It’s an easy one-sentence way to point out the inherent subjugation of women.
Yet it muddies the water with Islamophobia.
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You can’t consent to a religion if leaving it causes you to be shunned by your family and community.
Then, according to that logic, not a single person who believes in a mainstream/typical religion is consenting to it, because many families and communities will shun you if you leave their religion. That is a social construct and may or may not happen depending on many factors.
Are you specifically talking about the concept of apostasy in Islam and how it’s supposedly punishable by death?
Then, according to that logic, not a single person who believes in a mainstream/typical religion is consenting to it, because many families and communities will shun you if you leave their religion.
Yep! It’s truly horrific, isn’t it? If there is an omnipotent god, why do the teachings need to be spread by force an violence by humans? That doesn’t seem very omnipotent to me…
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Yet it muddies the water with Islamophobia.
Call me whatever you want, I believe women should have equal rights.
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Call me whatever you want, I believe women should have equal rights.
Somehow I doubt your sincerity. Most people who bring up women's rights when it comes to Muslims only bring up women's rights when Muslims are involved. Like conservatives who would happily defund every women's sports programs but use women's sports as a cudgel to hurt trans people.
It's really transparent and disingenuous, and you give off those same vibes.
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Again, consent under duress is not consent. You can’t consent to a religion if leaving it causes you to be shunned by your family and community.
You can’t consent to a religion if leaving it causes you to be shunned by your family and community.
Then almost no one consents to their religion worldwide at all, barring a relative handful who leave the dominant faith in their community and are essentially disconnected solo practitioners of whatever, because joining or marrying into a different religious community is essentially just choosing a different group with the power to shun you for leaving their faith in turn.
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Two wives?
That must be unbearable.
That must be unbearable.
Obviously. That's clearly two women who didn't choose the bear.
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Just to be clear, I see polygamy as bad only because of the women oppression aspect. But the world is a big place and history is long, so I wouldn't be surprised if at some point there was some system that allowed for polygamy without oppressing women. Mentioning mormons - don't you think they can be seen as another weird different group - and therefore be also object of xenophobia? Notice I intentionally didn't use the word racism, what I mean is just the sentiment that people doing things differently than my group must be deadly wrong.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Yeah, there's some aspect of "they're different so they're bad" in LDS history (not without reason, the church did and justified many fucked up things), but the modern polygamous Mormon splinter groups are kinda overlooked for the most part. They're pretty embedded in a lot of smaller towns and cities across southern Utah and northern Arizona (there may be more, it's been a while since I've looked at the topic), and they get very little national attention.
Contrast that with stuff like this tweet that just so happens to play to a lot conservative notions about how "backwards" Islam is.
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That must be unbearable.
Obviously. That's clearly two women who didn't choose the bear.
Marriage is punishment for shoplifting in some countries. This guy must have been really badly-behaved.
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Is the main objection to polygamy that having multiple sex partners is immoral or that the whole arrangement is subjugation of women (because usually it's multiple wives not husbands), or some other reason?
A bit of both. The Greeks and Romans had a cultural taboo against polygamy which Christianity inherited, which means that Christians have historically been opposed to polygamy (which was not the case in Pre-christian northern Europe) on moral grounds. There is also the issue that historically polygamy has been associated with patriarchal societies in which men are allowed or expected to have multiple wives, but women are not allowed to do the same. Additionally, it is also culturally associated with treating women as property of the husband. Personally I don't have any issue with polygamy if everyone is free to do whatever but the way most cultures practice it, it's unfair to women. Then again, that could also he said of "traditional" marriage in a lot of monogamous scenarios too.
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Like Mummy, right? Same
Would the plural even be mummies? I don't know but I had to re-read because my dumb brain already went there when I got to the end.
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Call me whatever you want, I believe women should have equal rights.
Sure, but that's universal. Most of the Islamic theocratic have this problem, and it's a point of general focus... but Islam is their excuse, not a functional cause. It's not like Mormons did it any better.
