What are your grammar bugbears?
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Resistance to shifting grammar annoys me.
Educated linguists know really well that language changes over time. It is natural and expected. There are also living valid variations of grammar outside standardized "book" grammar.
People who are zero educated just go with whatever.
People who are half educated juuuust enough to be smartasses but not enough to be smart will say shit like "I don't know, can you?" in response to "Can I go to the bathroom". Or pretend an emphasized negation - aka double negative - can be interpreted as a positive.
Regarding double negatives, I get what you are saying, but they absolutely can be interpreted as a positive - this is easily proven by simply reversing one of them, and they can be reversed because they are after all negatives.
But if the speaker's meaning is clear then of course it's rude and incorrect to misinterpret them.
I feel like there's a gray area though where some constructions may be genuinely ambiguous which way the speaker meant (since a double negative as negative by definition means the opposite of what the words would mean otherwise) -
The brain generates a characteristic signal (from a sub-region of Broca’s area) when it detects grammatical errors—but it generates an identical signal when you’re listening to a grammatical sentence and need to re-parse it partway through. I think this latter case is actually the real purpose of the signal: every time it triggers, your brain is warning you that you need to stop and check the sentence again even if the meaning seems unambiguous. So the “pretending they can’t understand you” reaction could just be a reflexive response to that signal (i.e., the brain is telling them it’s confused even if there’s no logical reason it should be).
iamverysmart
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This cafe
I mean I try not to be a dick about spelling and grammar and stuff these days, but come on!
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Abberant apostrophes (and missing ones).
Sentences that miss out words for no reason: e.g. "A couple things" vs. "A couple of things".
Confusing envy and jealousy.
The above is a personal list; I don't get judgemental about others' grammar but I do cringe internally.
The apostrophe thing really grinds my gears. Especially “it’s” vs “its”. It’s not very hard, “it’s” is a contraction meaning “it is”. Otherwise, it’s possessive. This homonym is its own worst enemy.
I hate that “jealousy” has devoured “envy”. “Language is fluid”, they always say, but those two words have very different meanings!
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I get hung up on i.e. vs e.g. I'm not sure this counts as grammar though...
I also understand the meaning is not very known so many people confuse the two but I wish it was overall well understood so that the message is very clear.E.g. is used when enumerating examples, it doesn't have to include all possibilities. Like saying "for example..."
I.e. is to demonstrate exactly what we are talking about. It's like saying "by that I mean this".
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The apostrophe thing really grinds my gears. Especially “it’s” vs “its”. It’s not very hard, “it’s” is a contraction meaning “it is”. Otherwise, it’s possessive. This homonym is its own worst enemy.
I hate that “jealousy” has devoured “envy”. “Language is fluid”, they always say, but those two words have very different meanings!
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I hate that “jealousy” has devoured “envy”. “Language is fluid”, they always say, but those two words have very different meanings!
You'll have to hate the Greeks for that then, because the usage of Ancient Greek ζῆλος (zêlos, from which we get both of the doublets "jealous" and "zealous") already overlapped with what we now call "envy", and this overlap was borrowed into Latin as zelosus (which still overlapped with the native Latin word invidiosus that became envy), and thence into Old French jalous, which continued to overlap with envie.
That is to say, as far back as we can trace, jealous has always also meant envious, and they've coexisted in that manner since at least Classical Latin.
As with most of the obnoxiously pedantic "facts" about language in threads like this one, this supposed "distinction" is recent, artificial, and only exists to give those in the know a false sense of superiority over those without the "secret knowledge". The secret knowledge is usually (as it is in this case) literally wrong, but all that matters to them, of course, is that they have a reason to think of themselves as better than other people.
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Abberant apostrophes (and missing ones).
Sentences that miss out words for no reason: e.g. "A couple things" vs. "A couple of things".
Confusing envy and jealousy.
The above is a personal list; I don't get judgemental about others' grammar but I do cringe internally.
See my comment here about why there is no such thing as confusing envy and jealousy, because "jealousy" has always included the meaning of envy for at least the past 2500 years.
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Are you jealous people who aren;t bothered by those errors?
Well done on that semi-colon: really pushing my buttons!
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I hate that “jealousy” has devoured “envy”. “Language is fluid”, they always say, but those two words have very different meanings!
You'll have to hate the Greeks for that then, because the usage of Ancient Greek ζῆλος (zêlos, from which we get both of the doublets "jealous" and "zealous") already overlapped with what we now call "envy", and this overlap was borrowed into Latin as zelosus (which still overlapped with the native Latin word invidiosus that became envy), and thence into Old French jalous, which continued to overlap with envie.
That is to say, as far back as we can trace, jealous has always also meant envious, and they've coexisted in that manner since at least Classical Latin.
As with most of the obnoxiously pedantic "facts" about language in threads like this one, this supposed "distinction" is recent, artificial, and only exists to give those in the know a false sense of superiority over those without the "secret knowledge". The secret knowledge is usually (as it is in this case) literally wrong, but all that matters to them, of course, is that they have a reason to think of themselves as better than other people.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]That's a bit harsh. When I say someone is envious as opposed to jealous, I am trying to convey a particular meaning. It doesn't bother me if someone uses the terms interchangeably as I can usually work out what they mean, but I do like my communication to be as clear as possible.
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I hate that “jealousy” has devoured “envy”. “Language is fluid”, they always say, but those two words have very different meanings!
You'll have to hate the Greeks for that then, because the usage of Ancient Greek ζῆλος (zêlos, from which we get both of the doublets "jealous" and "zealous") already overlapped with what we now call "envy", and this overlap was borrowed into Latin as zelosus (which still overlapped with the native Latin word invidiosus that became envy), and thence into Old French jalous, which continued to overlap with envie.
That is to say, as far back as we can trace, jealous has always also meant envious, and they've coexisted in that manner since at least Classical Latin.
As with most of the obnoxiously pedantic "facts" about language in threads like this one, this supposed "distinction" is recent, artificial, and only exists to give those in the know a false sense of superiority over those without the "secret knowledge". The secret knowledge is usually (as it is in this case) literally wrong, but all that matters to them, of course, is that they have a reason to think of themselves as better than other people.
Ah, there you are.
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That's a bit harsh. When I say someone is envious as opposed to jealous, I am trying to convey a particular meaning. It doesn't bother me if someone uses the terms interchangeably as I can usually work out what they mean, but I do like my communication to be as clear as possible.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I wasn't trying to say that you necessarily were trying to feel superior - just that that's why those so-called "distinctions" exist in the first place.
The reality is that natural human languages are always and inevitably unclear, redundant, etc., and there's literally no way to change that. Even if you taught babies a logical conlang (constructed language) like lojban as their first language, within a single generation you'd begin to see ambiguity introduced into the system, because that's just how humans are wired.
Language only has to be clear enough, which is borne out by the fact that every human has a different grammar, and yet we are all still able to communicate satisfactorily. There is no clarity to be gained from a pedantic differentiation between "jealousy" and "envy", since in the vast majority of cases the intended meaning is immediately clear from context, and in the tiny minority of cases where it isn't, an extra word or two will do the trick perfectly well, and that extra word or two will usually come naturally and unconsciously on the part of the speaker.
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Ah, there you are.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Here I am, calling out pedants for being literally and demonstrably wrong about language for two (and a half thousand, under the sloppy reading) years and counting!
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Here I am, calling out pedants for being literally and demonstrably wrong about language for two (and a half thousand, under the sloppy reading) years and counting!
“I see your pedantry, and raise you triple-dog pedantry!”
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I sign this as well. It’s literally a character difference and there is no ambiguity at all. There is no downside.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The downside is that with appositive phrases present the Oxford comma can introduce ambiguity:
"Thanks to my mother, Mother Teresa, and the pope."
In the Oxford comma system this is ambiguous between three people (1. my mother 2. Mother Teresa 3. the pope), and two people (1. my mother, who is Mother Teresa 2. the pope). Without the Oxford comma it's immediately clear that ", Mother Teresa," is an appositive phrase.
The opposite happens as well, where Oxford commas allow true appositives to be unintentionally read as lists:
"They went to Oregon with Betty, a maid, and a cook", where Betty is the maid mentioned.
This ambiguity is easily fixed, of course, but then again so is any ambiguity from not using an Oxford comma as well.
Note that I use the Oxford comma myself, but it's still worth mentioning that both systems are ambiguous, just in different ways.
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“I see your pedantry, and raise you triple-dog pedantry!”
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The difference being that my "pedantry" is informed by history and linguistic theory, and is intended to stop linguistic prejudice, as opposed to the pedantry threads like this are magnets for: perpetuating linguistic prejudice while being completely wrong in the process.
Edit: Typo
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A wall of text with no punctuation.
It's getting (or has been for some time) terrible on Reddit. Kids just narrating into their phones without taking a breath and clicking post without reading back over that text wall. I find this primarily in the paranormal subs that I read when I can't fall asleep at night.
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The difference being that my "pedantry" is informed by history and linguistic theory, and is intended to stop linguistic prejudice, as opposed to the pedantry threads like this are magnets for: perpetuating linguistic prejudice while being completely wrong in the process.
Edit: Typo
You have an unnecessary comma in there.
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You have an unnecessary comma in there.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Not with the inflection I intended that sentence to be pronounced with, illustrating quite nicely how writing is not language.
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I absolutely detest the practice of saying the "the proper nouns of the world," i.e the Tom Brady's of the world. Or the Empire State buildings of the world. First off, it's a proper noun. The implication of a proper noun is there is only one specific instance. Second, that's diminishing to the proper noun used by lowering that status to the mean. Last, it's usually used in a sports context to unnecessarily group up a bunch of players even though we already know the context of why they're being grouped up for comparison. It's just fucking dumb. It really grinds my gears.
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I absolutely detest the practice of saying the "the proper nouns of the world," i.e the Tom Brady's of the world. Or the Empire State buildings of the world. First off, it's a proper noun. The implication of a proper noun is there is only one specific instance. Second, that's diminishing to the proper noun used by lowering that status to the mean. Last, it's usually used in a sports context to unnecessarily group up a bunch of players even though we already know the context of why they're being grouped up for comparison. It's just fucking dumb. It really grinds my gears.
Oh, great, now I’m going to notice this one too. Thanks for causing me more consternation.
