Then they will ask why nobody wants to use their payment cards
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Bro. I feel you. But you have to embrace the fact that Crypto is both a blessing and a curse. People certainly use it in scammy ways - but they do the same with dollars and physical currency.
So people hyperfixate on how crypto can hurt them instead of how they can be helped.
Crypto 100% can replace banks, savings accounts, the stock market, and pretty much every centralized financial institution that has already been captured by billionaire interests.
But you aren't going to get people to hear that if you just complain about them fixating on the bad stuff.
Talk about what's good about Crypto enough, and people will definitley come around.
What's so frustrating about it is that every argument against crypto can also apply to fiat currency. The only one that holds water is the waste of electricity argument, which is why it's important to invest in Proof of Stake coins like Etherium. So even that argument is a weak one at best. I just don't understand the hate.
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It's not fraud, it's interest.
If you use a debit card and can't cover a transaction, it just doesn't go through. If you have a credit card then the bank pays and now you owe them, and they'll charge you extra for that privilege.
You could just pay off your balance by the due date and you won't be charged any interest.
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Oh sure, now Lemmy wants to embrace crypto instead of calling it a scam, all because your porn was threatened.
I had to put up with so much abuse here just because I always say positive things about crypto. You people suck.
It's not porn availability that's threatened, but freedom. I don't want to use bitcoin and I still think it's a scam and a sort of gamble, but if Visa or Mastercard can deprive us of freedom, we may have to consider using bitcoin.
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Honestly, what's the point of a credit card? Why don't people mostly use debit cards? It gets just directly wire transferred from your account. No sort of junk fees or monthly subscription needed. Genuine Question.
I live off a credit card, my money sits inside an offset account against my home loan the interest charged on that is calculated every 30 days at the end of the month so the more cash I have in there the less interest I pay on my mortgage.
The credit card is free with no fees or interest provided I pay it off on time with that date being every 30 days from the 15th of the month.
Thus at the end of the month when interest is calculated on my home loan I have more cash in my account then I would if I had of spent 2k that month on bills etc.
The other benefit is I earn points that the bank will exchange for cash with me so it's kinda like free money.
For context I'm Australian with an Australian bank.
This set up is great if you're disciplined for anyone due to the points etc however if you screw up spend beyond your means etc you will incur interest and that's not good.
I make sure to never spend more then I actually have and it has worked wonders for me.
In the past 10 years I've probably been made about 7k back in points value.
Cash flights etc all for spending exactly as I do.
I should note the card is provided to me as part of my home loan package hence it has no fees attached as I pay an upfront cost for the "home loan wealth package"
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Part of me wonders if this is all a play to boost crypto values by the execs in these industries.
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What's so frustrating about it is that every argument against crypto can also apply to fiat currency. The only one that holds water is the waste of electricity argument, which is why it's important to invest in Proof of Stake coins like Etherium. So even that argument is a weak one at best. I just don't understand the hate.
Well said! And same! The hate is entirely manufactured imo. Anyone with eyes can see that Bitcoin increased in value from .001 cents to $120,000 between 2009 and 2025. In that same 26 years what did the stock market do? Ride a rollercoaster of bullshit. The value of crypto is literally better than anything else in the last 2 decades, and that scares the people who control the fiat system outside it.
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Oh you're definitely paying the credit card fee too, but since it's the vendor who gets billed it's just priced into the product. That's why the product costs 10 Stanly nickle instead of 9 Stanly nickle.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Pay same in cash or credit. Priced in or not what the company asks for is what the consumer pays, so point being these crypto transaction arguments make no difference when it comes to fees. Like you said end retail price is already priced in.
Company wants 10 Stanley nickles consumer is charged 10 Stanley nickles regardless of payment method.
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I'm glad we're spending the equivalent of a couple dozen million households of electricity on it
You're so right, environmental impact has not been assessed by any cryptocurrency ever made. Literally zilch. None. Nada.
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"someone can decide you have zero dollars"
free speech until your bank account goes away
Regulation prevents that. You can’t regulate decentralized currencies, meaning you have zero protection 100% of the time.
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Part of me wonders if this is all a play to boost crypto values by the execs in these industries.
Devil's advocate, it's a play to get crypto banned cause it's only used for illegal/disapproved activities.
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Regulation prevents that. You can’t regulate decentralized currencies, meaning you have zero protection 100% of the time.
yes, however the regulations will always have some corruption
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I'm glad we're spending the equivalent of a couple dozen million households of electricity on it
Let's not ask how much power Visa and MasterCard use for their global monopoly.
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But is it really worth all of the junk that you have to accept? I like the credit scoring, the monthly subscription, and, if you miss the date for paying back, the absurdly high fees. Well, yes, with the debit card you have, technically speaking, the risk of someone being able to make about 100€ worth of RFID payments, and then the code is needed again for the next 100€ RFID payments. For everything else that doesn't involve RFID, the code is needed always.
What junk? Works same as a debt card but just not directly tied to a checking account, so less a big deal if it is lost or false charges made on it with companies reversing it. Get cashback on purchases, additional warranty on items, and able to do charge backs if company isn't giving you a refund for whatever reason.
Most people who run into trouble are because they don't realize credit cards aren't free money so go beyond their budget. If you spend what you can afford and pay back each month question becomes more why should a debit card be used over a credit card?
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Yep. Just because one side is bad, it doesn't mean the other is any good.
Cryptocurrency is still dependent of a pyramid scheme and criminals-enabling. Credit card companies are still a private owned government branch with no concern for human rights and criminals-enabling.
Cryptocurrency is still dependent of a pyramid scheme and criminals-enabling.
As we all know, Visa and MasterCard have never been used by criminals. As soon as a criminal touches a card, the card turns into ash.
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Let's not ask how much power Visa and MasterCard use for their global monopoly.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Literally orders of magnitude less? Are you not familiar with how proof of work crypto operates? Being energy inefficient is the whole point.
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I learned recently FedNow is a payment processor ran by the Federal Reserve, with a fee of $0.043 per transaction. Making it much, much cheaper than every other payment processor out there.
It just launched two years ago; I'm wondering if this might become more of a thing moving forward for digital payments.
It's also a heck of a lot quicker to process, (effectively instant) and works even on holidays.
And of course, banks like Bank of America, Capital One, and tons of other financial institutions simply refuse to use it, because that would mean spending money on changing their infrastructure, and making it more convenient for people to also use accounts outside of theirs.
Seriously, it's been ages, and they've refused to use it at all, even though it's purely a financial and technical upside for every user once it's implemented.
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The transaction fee is not paid by the consumer (directly), and lord knows sellers are not going to lower prices based on payment method.
sellers are not going to lower prices based on payment method
Mullvad actually does this for their VPN service, which I think is great. For a VPN company that doesn't want to store identifiers about you, taking crypto makes sense because that also doesn't necessarily have identifiers about you attached that they could read or be required to store, unlike a card that requires your name, address, and card number.
Other than that though, no larger companies are going to do anything of the sort, let alone be likely to even implement it as a payment method to begin with. Tons of additional technical complexity for little to no benefit.
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"Insane fluctuations in currency value": Someone who makes most of their payments in crypto is likely doing it with a stablecoin, which is a cryptocurrency pegged 1-to-1 to a fiat currency, like the US dollar. So, no more wild fluctuations than the 10% decrease in value the USD has experienced over the past year. Speaking of which, the 100% increase in BTC value this past year certainly is wild, but I don't think any of it's holders would consider that a problem.
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"Immense inefficiency of the whole system": If you consider the US military to be the value security for the world's dominant fiat currency [which you would be foolish not to] Proof of Work security is a large improvement on energy use. Proof of Stake security, which most stablecoins use these days, doesn't really use any energy worth noting.
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"All the fraud": Credit cards suffer far more fraud than crypto. Perhaps that's a product of their wider adoption, but that's where 99% of the fraud is happening.
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"The lack of regulation": One of the hottest topics in US congress over the past several years, for both Biden and Trump regimes, has been crypto regulation. It's a moving space right now but it seems myopic to call lack of regulation when it's certainly going to be a moot point by 2028.
Sorry I don't really consider myself to be some crypto warrior but I do really dislike these decade+ old off the cuff relatively low-information talking points. This is not how you argue against crypto, if you want a strong argument against crypto come at it from an explicitly anti-capitalist lens and accuse it of accelerating global financialization, which it is, like a gas can poured on a campfire. Go big or go home. If you don't oppose capitalism and you're just looking for a better money, crypto is not your boogeyman.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Stronger argument is that deflationary currency is not something someone with an investment mind wants to spend. Which is why there is the same price fixation and attempts to hype up crypto like stocks because most people got into it not to spend it, but hold onto it like an asset. Its why people encourage rebuying crypto if you use it to buy something to replenish their balance to not regret having wasted what could be a house to get a slice of pizza.
Now sure there are stable coins but that is more used by investors to move assets around exchanges to then go and buy other crypto that they believe will return a profit or move into when they believe a dip is occuring so they can reenter later to expand their assests by buying low. Pretty much most crypto communities are highly fixated on price as opposed to treating it like currency that should be spent. It's always this is the next big thing, it is going to moon, hodl, etc.
So I guess point is as much as people like to act like they are anticapitalist the culture of crypto once prices started going up is pursuit of capitalism and wealth hording. The values people claim to have was most present when crypto was new and people were giving it away, having fun spending it, and transacting it. But, then greed took over as people saw people becoming millionaires and billionaires for holding what they got early.
It's ironic looking at it now given the state of dogecoin but that maintained the original spirit of crypto for a really long time before it too skyrocketed in price and got pulled into the same asset category.
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Benefits of centralization: Someone can counteract harmful interactions.
Drawbacks of centralization: Someone can decide legitimate interactions are harmful.
It does suck when the “harmful interaction management system” goes haywire. But I’m not sure it sucks enough that I’d rather simply not have one.
I used to be one of the people firmly on the "someone can decide legitimate interactions are harmful, thus they should not ever exist" side of the argument, and I think this is certainly a good way of putting it.
For a lot of people heavily into crypto, they see the drawbacks of the existing system, but instead of pushing for reform and legal changes, they try technological abolition of the entire mechanism altogether, without then realizing the tradeoffs that brings (e.g. how a lot of people will go "it's instant! Sellers don't have to worry about chargebacks! Nobody can take away your money from you!" yet don't think about how that also means a scammer taking your money is a permanent loss you can never reverse. (or if they do think about it, will argue that risk can be reduced to a point it is less harmful than the alternative, centralized companies)
I don't deny crypto can be useful sometimes, or even be more beneficial when the centralized companies do eventually do something bad and people need an alternative payment mechanism, but I think a lot of people into crypto overestimate how beneficial it truly is compared to the tradeoffs.
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yes, however the regulations will always have some corruption
Same for unregulated systems, only without transparency, limits or recourse
