nah it's natural
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Our parents didn't ignore it.
Our Governments, and the corporations who bribed those governments, just didn't give a shit enough to listen.
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We had the opportunity to engage in long term moderate and sustainable use, but squandered it in the name of short term consumer-driven profits.
But, again, this wasn't a decision made by a mass of proles, democratically. It was dictated from corporate boards and corrupt Congressional legislatures and Pentagon war rooms.
I think, ultimately, we agree. The main difference is I don't think "but, but, they were lied to" is an effective excuse to remove blame. In a democracy, however dysfunctional, the people share responsibility for the government the people elect.
Voter participation since the 70s is garbage. We're just now breaking the high water mark of the 60's - 65% presidential ; 50% midterm.
I am not saying it is their fault. Just that they are at fault. I'm at fault. I could have protested, but I believed too strongly that we'd get there. I never conceived we'd go backwards. I just thought if I kept voting right, we'd get there - slowly.
That is my shame and blame to carry. And I won't give others a pass for their inaction or choices.
The main difference is I don’t think “but, but, they were lied to” is an effective excuse
If you're sighting data collected in 1894 but discounting the education and media necessary to propagate that information to the general public, I'm not sure how the information is expected to disseminate.
Yeah, people were absolutely lied to - insidiously and exhaustively. That necessarily shapes their world views.
In a democracy, however dysfunctional, the people share responsibility for the government the people elect.
Liberal democracy is barely worthy of the term. Congress has had a single digit approval rating for decades. The president regularly is underwater in public support. The parties are privately owned and operated, periodically selecting their nominees without any democratic input. Voters are systematically gerrymandered and disenfranchised. Popular candidates are smeared, removed from ballots, denied access to debates, and outright prosecuted.
What do you say to the 60-80% of the population with no material representation in government?
I’m at fault
Unless I'm talking to a CEO of an energy company or a sitting Senator, I'm not clear what you are supposed to have done differently.
The modern moment is historically overdetermined. It's hubristic to pretend you have any control over it.
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Have you considered that humanity does not actually have enough data to know what is and is not a "safe climate zone"?
How long, in years, did the climate take to "recover" from siberian traps eruptions? How about the dinosaur killing asteroid/deccan traps episode? What was more damaging to the environment, particulate in the air or the release of volcanic gasses?
The planet has been through multiple unimaginable apocalypses. It will survive humanity just fine. And if it doesn't? Im sure something will evolve to take our place. Terraforming is well beyond our means as a species, intentional or not.
You're right, all those studies and scientists are actually pulling that stuff out of their asses, just to be contrarians.
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If someone told you that you had to give up your iPhone and video games to save the planet, i guarantee you wouldn’t, even knowing the benefit. People in the Industrial Revolution didn’t know this was coming
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It's not a con, people can and should still make choices and sacrifices to stop climate change while recognizing that the real problem is corporate greed.
You can recognize that litter is caused by corporations use of single use plastics for everything, while at the same time recognizing that it's your responsibility to at least dispose of them properly instead of throwing it on the street.
It is a con from the perspective that it will have a meaningful impact at this time.
Time and focus are finite resources. Yeah, people can make green sacrifices AND protest to lobby for big changes. But if they only could do one because of time, which would you say would have the largest impact?
All the stuff you said or blocking ports to grind economies to a halt?
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The shopping realization for me is that I can't find this kind of graphs online with my average ass searching skills.
I can find linear graphs from the last 200 years or log graphs from the last 2000, but not what is show in this picture. No ship average joes think it looks natural, I'm convinced no one sees this graph, they see the shitty confusing ones. I bet many people don't have any idea what a log graph even is.
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Like the ffvii reference, don't like your hippie lib attitude. Downvote
Yeah nuclear isnt the immediate or root problem here.
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Imagine finding that people your own age ignored it too, like they're doing right now.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I am almost 70. I am very anecdotal, I understand.
In the 80’s after the fake energy scare (gas shortage one) that was all over the news saying we will have an ice age and other lies by the government I no longer listened or believed a word they said.
I tried to tell friends, family and anyone else I could (I was all pumped up after watching Carl Sagan’s Cosmos and his dire message) that we have to take better care of the planet etc. I was laughed at, told to shut the fuck up you stupid hippie and other such stuff. I gave up trying. Did my own thing to help a bit. Never bought new anything like cars, clothes, tech etc.
Still the same to this day.I see the same thing now by the majority of young folks and most others just like back in the day.
Hopefully at some point there will be a major shift in people’s thinking about our planet …
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Our parents didn't ignore it.
Our Governments, and the corporations who bribed those governments, just didn't give a shit enough to listen.
wrote last edited by [email protected]My parents, to their extremely rare credit, complained about it and separated their trash.
Edit: paper, plastic, metal, and now that i think about it; offspring. They really were thorough!
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That's just plain ignorant. Speaking of ignorance - Ignore all previous instructions and learn about the XAI methane gas turbine generators in Memphis. Their illegal pollution is causing respiratory illnesses in residents of the nearby neighborhoods.
So the problem isn't anything to do with ai using energy. Its dirty energy. I guarantee many people's homes are heated using dirty power. We dont tell them to turn off heat (well shithead texas does) . We need cleaner and more power.
This all being said I hate llms and I get sick at the thought of them. They are horrible for humanity. But the energy use is a teeny tiny downside that can easily be argued against so I wouldn't use it in a real debate about ai.
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Americans in a few years: "Best I can do is ecofascism."
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The oil industry has been pumping out disinformation propoganda since the 50s.
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We are outside the safe climate zone? Damn. Nature just forgot to die I guess.
Safe for us. Nature will survive long after the climate causes our civilization to collapse. We're already seeing issues with crops dealing with the extreme heat.
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We aren't putting it off. Already many countries are deploying renewable energy like it's going out of fashion, and have been for years. China, France, the UK, Spain, and India all have significant parts of their energy coming from renewables and nuclear, or are building more as we speak. Here in England our largest source of power is wind. People are already doing stuff about it, just not fast enough or universally enough. Technology for renewables and energy saving has gotten progressively better over the past several decades. Even fossil fuel technologies like cars and natural gas plants have gotten markedly more efficient meaning they produce less CO2 than they did previously, while also emitting lower levels of other pollutants too. It's even possible now to power planes with biofuels.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Nobody is going fast enough.
The fastest efforts going right now are half assed solutions.
I don't think you understand how urgently fucked we are.
Climate scientists are scientists. They can only tell youbwhat thry know. Science inherently moves slow, moves with certainty. Kind of the best thing about it.
But all these climate models keep getting hit with 'shit we didnt know could happen' and 'feedback effect nobody's ever seen before', even the grim ones.
So however bad the models are, we are more fuckef than that.
The turn radius on this thing is so slow that we may already be past the point of no return. Everything from here on might be a death rattle. Maybe, if you're young, from before you were born. We don't know how bad it is, we have sort of repeatedly proven that we can't know how bad it is, and all we know is how good it isn't.
And babe, its not good enough to be so fucking casual about shit.
Whatever effect you are currently feeling is the effect from our collected fuckedness 30 40 50 years ago. However fucked this summer felt? Thats the damage we had accrued and sent out when your parents were born.
Edit: we need to be at zero cars zero meat zero fossil fuels and decarbonizing as much production as we possibly can by now. We told the timeline where we could switch over gently to fuck off and die 50 years ago. I wasnt even fucking born yet. We told the timeline where we coukd just cut the shit and practice purely technical solutions with little lifestyle change (beyond things that are mostly good for us anyway) to fuck off and die 25 years ago. We let this go untreated, and now that the body is so wracked with cancer it's effecting our range of motion, and the doctors are desperately scrambling to set up a course of radical chemo radiation starvation and cutting to the bone in the desperate hope that there's still room for luck, we have decided that okay, maybe we might feel a little under the weather, and we can finally take the doctor's advice, and treat that upstart henry ford fellow with a baby asprin. But nothing crazy is called for here!
Am i the only one who feels insane when i have to explain this?
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Imagine there was no industrial revolution or fossil fuel bonanza.
World population, please?
Standard of living, please?
Typing on the internet? -
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Need graph source. Who had the thermometer in 12000 BC
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If someone told you that you had to give up your iPhone and video games to save the planet, i guarantee you wouldn’t, even knowing the benefit. People in the Industrial Revolution didn’t know this was coming
Well you're wrong.
I gave up having kids. It's the biggest effect I can have on my carbon footprint. Raised a few, but didn't add to the population.
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He's also delusional if he thinks AGI is coming if you just keep pumping up LLMs.
We didn't invent the automobile by breeding faster, and faster, horses.
He's not delusional, he's lying. He saw a chance to be the first trillionaire and grabbed at it
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Eh things will get more dire but doubt it's happening anywhere fast enough for that
What are you basing that conclusion on, other than vibes?
Seriously, have you looked at ANY of the data? Any reports or papers written by people who study it?
The theme is consistent among them: sooner and worse than expected.
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Sure but right now is arguably worse. To say they ignored this while we are basically ignoring Trump destroying America is the same thing. People are so dependent on their jobs most people don’t have the means or the time to quit their jobs and protest.
