So how do you feel about the whole Charlie Kirk divide?
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There's something my dad texted me the other day when I was talking to him about this
"We’ll be ok. I lived through Vietnam, Kent state, watergate, Kennedy assassination, etc. everything works out eventually" (then some choice words about trump)
That being said, it does feel like the end times, but his statement makes me think, how many others have felt this uncertainty throughout history before us, and how many times did it work out versus get worse? Something to think about I guess
Normally, I'd agree with your dad. And I mostly still do. I'm not quite sure how this stacks up against previous crises. I have no doubt, for example, the Cuban Missile Crisis was pants-shittingly terrifying. But we don't have firm hands on the rudders here to steer us back from the brink of madness.
We've discarded the Constitution. We're disregarding rule of law. We'll survive, in all likelihood, persevere, in some fashion. What I'm afraid of is what we lose - who we lose - in this nightmare timeline.
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I went to a bar to have a drink when it happened. I will always drink to dead Nazis
Seems cheaper to just get a bottle of whiskey imo, but then again I'm a homebody
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Oddly enough, I cherish all life. I joke because the world is often dark, and humor helps me embrace and cope with the unchangeable nature of life and death.
I don’t believe the death penalty is the answer. I’m a strong advocate for reform. I believe everyone deserves a chance to change, mostly because I’ve changed myself, and I want those around me to bounce back from the worst and grow into fathers, mothers, or even symbols of hope for others who have stumbled.
There are people like Charlie Kirk who were angry at the world, consumed by hate. Killing someone like that is the quick path. But the slower and more meaningful path, the one with a greater chance of creating lasting good, is changing their perspective. That could undo not only their hate, but also the hate of those who listen to them. Instead, by destroying them, we often create more fear and more hate.
I know many will say some people will never change, that they are incapable of seeing from the perspective of those they hate. And maybe that’s true. I admit, I struggle to understand fascists, and you might too. But if this conflict is ever going to truly end, it will take understanding, not killing.
Maybe I’m wrong. I just think life, all life, is precious. Some people throw it away through drugs, hate, or wasted time. The addict who never recovers dies with their potential unrealized. The person who clings to hate dies with nothing but bitterness. The real tragedy isn’t just their death, it’s the life they were given and chose to waste.
What happened was unfortunate, no one got through to him in time. Or nothing worked. Just like a heroin addict found dead with a needle in their arm. His hate put a bullet in his neck.
This is the perspective of someone who has been around. The block, I respect your ability to look at things objectively
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
Rolling eyes at all the people that will just not admit they want to kill democrats, gays, blacks, trans, ect and will take any excuse regardless of how illogical it is. Also, it happened the same day they voted down the Epstein files release. If that man would not have been assassinated, the Republican party would be ruined right now. His death is the only reason it will survive.
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I am absolutely done giving grace to these vermin. My energy is not limitless, and I’m saving it for people that matter.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I think you're right not to spend any energy on this, and I agree that it would be performative to pretend to be sad that he left the world. In some ways, our society is better for normalizing honest reactions to things.
However: I want to encourage you to think about what it means to define him as vermin. Within the meaning of this word is the belief that he is low enough on a hierarchy of worth that he no longer falls under the protections and values we afford to "human". And furthermore, he is of a group that can only be effectively dealt with through extermination.
Personally, I don't think this is a useful philosophical concept. It's very central to the philosophies that Charlie Kirk sought to popularize: the idea that some people, through their worldview and lifestyle have forfeited any minimum universal protections we afford to humans, and instead should be eradicated. Obviously, his criteria of human worth was more or less an inverse of yours, but personally I'd reject his overall framework.
I'm really sure whether I truly disagree with it. But I definitely believe that the framework itself inherently benefits the fascist project far, far more than it could benefit a socialist project.
I definitely don't encourage you to mourn him. But I would encourage you to ask whether you really think there's utility in agreeing with him at all on the principle that humans can be vermin.
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Normally, I'd agree with your dad. And I mostly still do. I'm not quite sure how this stacks up against previous crises. I have no doubt, for example, the Cuban Missile Crisis was pants-shittingly terrifying. But we don't have firm hands on the rudders here to steer us back from the brink of madness.
We've discarded the Constitution. We're disregarding rule of law. We'll survive, in all likelihood, persevere, in some fashion. What I'm afraid of is what we lose - who we lose - in this nightmare timeline.
I suppose I can see that, I certainly prefer fear of death from two blocks away rather than fear of death raining down from above. My small comfort is that, yes, we will persevere, I have the same thoughts about climate change. I mean fuck it, our species could wipe our habitability on the earth, but if scientists can develop plastic eating worms I bet some small semblance of life can survive in the aftermath.
Its all about perspective
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Rolling eyes at all the people that will just not admit they want to kill democrats, gays, blacks, trans, ect and will take any excuse regardless of how illogical it is. Also, it happened the same day they voted down the Epstein files release. If that man would not have been assassinated, the Republican party would be ruined right now. His death is the only reason it will survive.
How do you figure? I haven't heard about all this so I'm uninformed.
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I think you're right not to spend any energy on this, and I agree that it would be performative to pretend to be sad that he left the world. In some ways, our society is better for normalizing honest reactions to things.
However: I want to encourage you to think about what it means to define him as vermin. Within the meaning of this word is the belief that he is low enough on a hierarchy of worth that he no longer falls under the protections and values we afford to "human". And furthermore, he is of a group that can only be effectively dealt with through extermination.
Personally, I don't think this is a useful philosophical concept. It's very central to the philosophies that Charlie Kirk sought to popularize: the idea that some people, through their worldview and lifestyle have forfeited any minimum universal protections we afford to humans, and instead should be eradicated. Obviously, his criteria of human worth was more or less an inverse of yours, but personally I'd reject his overall framework.
I'm really sure whether I truly disagree with it. But I definitely believe that the framework itself inherently benefits the fascist project far, far more than it could benefit a socialist project.
I definitely don't encourage you to mourn him. But I would encourage you to ask whether you really think there's utility in agreeing with him at all on the principle that humans can be vermin.
Not the previous user, but I think humanity is something that everyone is endowed with at birth, and a narrow few people choose to surrender it through their actions.
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Outside of the Internet, where nuance still has meaning(for now), the US is largely populated by reasonable people that want pretty much the same thing. Which is to say, they want life to be better for themselves and their communities.
The steps on how to make that happen and who is at fault for the situation currently are debated at length, but widespread calls for real violence are a fairly recent phenomenon. It wasn't like this a decade ago and they are cashing in whatever global goodwill they had at record pace, but outside of the admin, most of the people in the US are just people, with complex opinions and ideas. They aren't the caricatures they appear to be online.
A civil war is going to throw basically everyone's current life into disarray, leading to even greater instability, and misery as well as problems in policy both domestic and foreign.
100%.
I try to remind myself, though, that it would be a waste of time trying to yell at this tidal wave of rage that's bearing down on us just as it would to yell at an actual tidal wave. I think we need to be grabbing sand bags and securing our food supplies and looking to get to the other side of this period of history. I think it could easily last a generation. And if we're really, really effective (and lucky) it could be as short as another decade. But there's no use rubbernecking or bellyaching. We just need to focus on fixing this broken-ass world.
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I feel nothing about it. It doesn't make a difference to me.
I feel the same, are you also a bit autistic? I feel like there's not many people who can just kind of shrug all these things off
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I went to a bar to have a drink when it happened. I will always drink to dead Nazis
Cheers!
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How do you figure? I haven't heard about all this so I'm uninformed.
Well, all the post about civil war and democrats being labeled as terrorists for one. Now that everyone has figured out dude could be a far right groyper, all the conservatives stopped saying they want to kill everyone. All the political shooters have been far right.
Far right folks are flipping out about Epstein files, and with good reason. I guess the pedos greatly underestimated the amount of conservatives that hate child abusers. Probably many of them are victims too. Had there not been some bot-induced emotional disregulation psychosis with conservatives in these online right-wing echo chambers to create a vicious cycle out of their anger, the right would have completely lost their shit over the GOP's shitty decision to not release those files. Everyone everywhere can agree that we are all fucking sick of the pedophile coverups and our legislators licking pedo boots. The fact that the assassination happened the same day tells you all you need to know. The Repulicans absolutely had to have a distraction to get away with it. Hell, NASA even announced the they almost certainly found evidence of life on Mars. The day before, they showed a video of a UFO recovering after getting hit with a hellfire missile at a congressional hearing. Nobody with half a brain cell can look at this info and not see what is going on. Cover up distraction 100%.
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Oddly enough, I cherish all life. I joke because the world is often dark, and humor helps me embrace and cope with the unchangeable nature of life and death.
I don’t believe the death penalty is the answer. I’m a strong advocate for reform. I believe everyone deserves a chance to change, mostly because I’ve changed myself, and I want those around me to bounce back from the worst and grow into fathers, mothers, or even symbols of hope for others who have stumbled.
There are people like Charlie Kirk who were angry at the world, consumed by hate. Killing someone like that is the quick path. But the slower and more meaningful path, the one with a greater chance of creating lasting good, is changing their perspective. That could undo not only their hate, but also the hate of those who listen to them. Instead, by destroying them, we often create more fear and more hate.
I know many will say some people will never change, that they are incapable of seeing from the perspective of those they hate. And maybe that’s true. I admit, I struggle to understand fascists, and you might too. But if this conflict is ever going to truly end, it will take understanding, not killing.
Maybe I’m wrong. I just think life, all life, is precious. Some people throw it away through drugs, hate, or wasted time. The addict who never recovers dies with their potential unrealized. The person who clings to hate dies with nothing but bitterness. The real tragedy isn’t just their death, it’s the life they were given and chose to waste.
What happened was unfortunate, no one got through to him in time. Or nothing worked. Just like a heroin addict found dead with a needle in their arm. His hate put a bullet in his neck.
Interesting way to put. I might steal some of it. However, I wanted to ask you: what if these people know EXACTLY what they are doing. People like Alex Jones and Roe Rogan know exactly that they are echoing the right wing. They are basically right-wing influencers, and they do it because there's someone out there funding them.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
I really could care less either way.
My pet peeve is people who say this expression wrong, because it's not only slightly mispronounced, but entirely turned on it's head to mean the exact opposite of its intention. This reversal of meaning seems clear, so I'm not sure why the error is so prolific, though it does seem more of a thing in other countries like the USA, not so much here.
It's "couldn't care less", not "could care less". You're trying to say "I care so little that it is not possible for me to care any less than I do already".
Instead, by saying you "could care less", you are being ambiguous about how much you care, but confirming that you care at least a little bit (or possibly due to the ambiguity it's the most important thing in your life and you care so, so much).
Sorry if I sound grouchy, it's just something that's bugged me for a long time and here at 5am is when I decided to finally say something about it, haha. No shade on you personally though, as the hip youths would say!
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The main thing I take away from this is how soft people have become since the corporate sanitization of the web. That video was tame compared to stuff that regularly made the rounds even ten years ago. The way people talk about it, you'd think it was a drug cartel video.
wrote last edited by [email protected]The thing that changed was not how vile or tame shocking videos have gotten, or how soft people are, but how widespread videos like this are now.
Like, for example, those taliban beheading videos that made the rounds 20 years ago were way worse, but to encounter them you had to be in edgy spaces online. They basically didn't exist for normal people. However, this video was all over the mainstream web, and normal people aren't desensitized to gore like the millennials who were chronically online as teens.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
Kirk was human, death is bad. I don’t want to be shot either. Period.
I don’t care that he’s dead, personally. Democrat senators were shot and people mocked it, so it only makes me feel reluctant to give a shit. Plus minorities get killed by cops, kids get killed in schools, etc. I weigh their souls more than some hateful asshole.
This just gives the current administration more ammunition to do whatever they want. And that makes me tired and sad.
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The main thing I take away from this is how soft people have become since the corporate sanitization of the web. That video was tame compared to stuff that regularly made the rounds even ten years ago. The way people talk about it, you'd think it was a drug cartel video.
Back in high school my friends would show me cartel beheading videos on the bus to track meets. It sounds far-fetched, but it really happened. I couldn’t even believe it either.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
I didn't really know anything about him until after I heard he died. And shortly after that, I heard that three kids died in another school shooting.
I don't give a fuck about Charlie. I'm pissed that he's getting a flag at half mast and those three children and all the children that came before only get thoughts and prayers.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
This says nothing about society any more than any other shooting does.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
I'm not personally in the business of killing people, but situations and circumstances cause people to change what they believe is right and wrong. I do believe that sometimes killing people is a valid route to meaningful change. I don't think this is what happened here, I think some kid got a good shot in and is going to have to deal with the consequences of what his family and country did to him for a while.
Regardless of all of that, I can't help but see this event in context of America. Like you have a bunch of people getting fed crazy shit 24/7, in a society that is so deeply entrenched in gun culture that you physically cannot de-escalate, these things will happen. The fact it happened to a dude that was very publically advocating for people to have rights to firearms, it feels about the same as a person purposely stepping on a rake. Dude kind of did this to himself somewhat.
