Marine Le Pen banned from running for public office after guilty verdict
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"Not being president" is not a punishment. Just the absence of a reward for her corruption. If the worst she had was "not being rewarded", then what stops every other crook from attempting to seize power?
That's what's wrong with the system, and I'm glad at least she got prison out of it.
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Waiting for the orange fascist to threaten France with tariffs for this.
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don't be like us here in the US having a convicted felon run the show
I don't have an issue with a public servant holding office and having a criminal record. People make mistakes, and people can change. However, I think the fact the current president has made public and copious comments about dismantling the democracy that exists while showing a blatant disdain for the rights of people, that I have an issue with.
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"Not being president" is not a punishment. Just the absence of a reward for her corruption. If the worst she had was "not being rewarded", then what stops every other crook from attempting to seize power?
That's what's wrong with the system, and I'm glad at least she got prison out of it.
That is some pretzel logic.
I mean, for one thing there is plenty of proof that harsher criminal punishments do not reduce crime in any way, so there's that for the US-style "just jail more people for longer" nonsense.
But also, it doesn't follow that leniency is what got you here when she has literally been punished with the penalty you were hoping for in the first place. It sure makes it sound like you were primed to think this was too lenient no matter what it was.
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I don't have an issue with a public servant holding office and having a criminal record. People make mistakes, and people can change. However, I think the fact the current president has made public and copious comments about dismantling the democracy that exists while showing a blatant disdain for the rights of people, that I have an issue with.
i think we need there to be like… enough time for someone to rehabilitate themselves. trump didn't, and also the nature of his convictions were political corruption.
like. i think we fundamentally agree is what i'm saying, and i oversimplified it for my short little statement. i think there's all sorts of people in prison right now who once out deserve to have their voting rights restored and be allowed to participate in society (drug charges and political imprisonments mostly), but the nature and recency of donald trump's crimes should have disqualified him for running again, but the right is too addicted to power to risk giving it up to do the right thing.
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That is some pretzel logic.
I mean, for one thing there is plenty of proof that harsher criminal punishments do not reduce crime in any way, so there's that for the US-style "just jail more people for longer" nonsense.
But also, it doesn't follow that leniency is what got you here when she has literally been punished with the penalty you were hoping for in the first place. It sure makes it sound like you were primed to think this was too lenient no matter what it was.
So whataboutism and strawmen are your answers. Good to know rather early this conversation isn't going anywhere, since both of us will always be right and wrong at the same time, according to each other.
One crook or two facing consequences does not excuse all the others that consistently get away. She's just "the one that was caught this time", and your willingness to see her "not-reward" as if it was an actual punishment written in the law for her crimes speaks volumes - to the point it makes me wonder what potential role or benefit you're getting (or hoping to get) from such a system.
Almost makes me think you're primed to automatically defend scum like her no matter how corrupt she was. Anyways I don't think this will be a productive discussion for either of us, so forgive me for not participating further.
Cheers.
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"Le Pen, who left the court before the hearing had finished, was also sentenced to four years in prison with two years suspended and and the other two to be served outside jail with an electronic bracelet."
She can appeal the prison sentence, but the office part has taken effect even if she appeals.
I misread as left the country and was disappointed on second read...
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i think we need there to be like… enough time for someone to rehabilitate themselves. trump didn't, and also the nature of his convictions were political corruption.
like. i think we fundamentally agree is what i'm saying, and i oversimplified it for my short little statement. i think there's all sorts of people in prison right now who once out deserve to have their voting rights restored and be allowed to participate in society (drug charges and political imprisonments mostly), but the nature and recency of donald trump's crimes should have disqualified him for running again, but the right is too addicted to power to risk giving it up to do the right thing.
I agree, the nature of the convictions should be a factor. I also agree that a sort of "cooldown" from a conviction would be reasonable, before having eligibility for holding political office restored. I've been leary of the simplified "convicts shouldn't hold office" statement though, since the original intention of that lack of disqualification criteria was, to my understanding, to prevent political imprisonment from barring opponents from holding office. That seems like the sort of thing the current administration would jump on if they could, as well.
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I don't have an issue with a public servant holding office and having a criminal record. People make mistakes, and people can change. However, I think the fact the current president has made public and copious comments about dismantling the democracy that exists while showing a blatant disdain for the rights of people, that I have an issue with.
Not an american but personally I think thats too low a bar for the leader of a country. Why shouldn't we ask of the people we give ultimate power to that they be better than the average dipshit?
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I agree, the nature of the convictions should be a factor. I also agree that a sort of "cooldown" from a conviction would be reasonable, before having eligibility for holding political office restored. I've been leary of the simplified "convicts shouldn't hold office" statement though, since the original intention of that lack of disqualification criteria was, to my understanding, to prevent political imprisonment from barring opponents from holding office. That seems like the sort of thing the current administration would jump on if they could, as well.
that's very fair and i should have been more careful is what i was getting at
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"Le Pen, who left the court before the hearing had finished, was also sentenced to four years in prison with two years suspended and and the other two to be served outside jail with an electronic bracelet."
She can appeal the prison sentence, but the office part has taken effect even if she appeals.
(so she’s serving two years house arrest in practice). Better than nothing I guess.
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I don't have an issue with a public servant holding office and having a criminal record. People make mistakes, and people can change. However, I think the fact the current president has made public and copious comments about dismantling the democracy that exists while showing a blatant disdain for the rights of people, that I have an issue with.
I think there are enough qualified people to be president in the all of 350 million in the states that it's OK if we disqualify people who've been convicted of a felony.
I think democracy would survive if not thrive.
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Not an american but personally I think thats too low a bar for the leader of a country. Why shouldn't we ask of the people we give ultimate power to that they be better than the average dipshit?
Because there are people getting into prison because they are political opponents. Navalny or The mayor of Istanbul are examples of such tactics.
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Normally you'd expect this to be pretty definitive, but fascists are real good at playing victims, so I'm not particularly convinced this will move things in the right direction. Electoral losses would have been preferable.
Of course if she did the thing, she did the thing. I'm saying all things being equal I want to see these idiots lose support without having excuses to target democratic institutions in retaliation.
Some "sympathizers" are already crying the justice is interfering with politics. Although the suspension of electoral rights is inscribed in the law, and would you expect anything less of a punishment for someone who corrupted millions of € of public money ?!?
These same "sympathizers" are constantly shouting everywhere that our justice is to soft and that criminals should be punished more harshly.
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don't be like us here in the US having a convicted felon run the show
Next time- Vote.
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Elon and Trump will call France out for being anti democracy because of this. Changing the narrative that Europe isn’t a democracy anymore, but the extremely flawed American system is.
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Next time- Vote.
i did. and i encouraged as many people as i could to do so as well. my struggle is the people saying voting does nothing and the only way to get our scumfuck politicians to do anything is the way malcolm x did. and those people reveal something about themselves when they say that. malcolm x said "the ballot or the bullet." he necouraged democratic participation AND radical action. you have to both. and what's more is voting takes so little effort. i find it hard to believe people who are unwilling to put in the effort to vote are willing to put in the effort to take radical action. and frankly, that's what i see out in the streets. who was protesting with me before the election were people saying we need to vote. and it's all those same people now. i don't see all those "we hate blue maga" people here on lemmy out in real life putting the work in to support the movement of meaningful justice, equity, and peace.
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When convicted for embezzlement, someone should NEVER be allowed to run for government offices ever again
