The great millennial garbage gyre
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I am forklift certified. I do not need this.
I'd hate to be the one to say this, but that's not what people mean by "picking up girls."
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What the fuck is a 17 year old doing at a job?
at my old job the youngest employees were like 15. not too uncommon in some parts of America
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Looking for an anticapitalist on lemmy is like looking for a lesbian at a Teagan and Sara concert. It's not everybody, but it's not a difficult search
meh, I dont think thats accurate. I would say "opportunist" is a better fit. Anticapitalists understand how profit extractions works and have a very different view on society. Mostly one that does not work on .world because of the capitalist propaganda machine running in the west.
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Yeah it's not about "ownership", it's a partnership. You can't rely on someone that's also trying to maintain romantic relationships with other people as well.
You can rely on someone in a non mono relationship, it's just way more complicated and takes 1000% more time. It's all just choices. But there's plenty of examples of deep relationships that are also non monogamous
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at my old job the youngest employees were like 15. not too uncommon in some parts of America
Shouldn't it be uncommon? Or better yet, non existing?
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I'm referring to these particular women, not women as a whole.
There's a type of woman who are essentially asexual, never masturbates, says they don't really need sex, but still wants to be in a heterosexual relationship from either societal expectations or because they think a boyfriend is useful in other aspects of their life.
And there are some dudes who only want sex and aren't willing to put any work into building an actual relationship outside the bedroom. My point being is that there are lots of different attitudes out there, but the vast majority of people are just normal people wanting healthy relationships.
I think social media has really segregated people from reality and has warped people's interpretation of others. It feels as if everyone believes they are the last "normal" person in society and everyone else is just intrinsically antagonistic.
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I don't believe you. I do not believe a woman is there for a man in his off days. I've never seen that. Women do not support men, supporting a man is misogyny. They go on social media claiming to be "strong and independent" always in that order, and demanding heights and salaries that they will begrudgingly fuck for. "You take me on enough expensive dates and I might stoop to fucking you."
That's what the modern online-only strangers-only dating scene looks like. You will be alone with or without these women.
Look up "spool of wire guy."
wrote last edited by [email protected]Our first date was a walk in the park because we couldn't decide. We walked for hours. I felt safe enough to even go back to his spot after where we smoked cannabis and talked still, for many more hours. Our first date was like 6 hours long and cost nothing but a bit of gas for the drive.
The spool of wire guy, is that the fella who's sitting outside reminiscing when he first bought that giant spool of wire and now it was gone? A very sweet, sentimental moment for thst guy.
Not gonna lie, some women are like that I've heard. I've never been friends with those types. Shallow people gonna shallow. Before I met my husband, most commonly my first dates were usually bar dates, where I would pay my own drink, or be turned down when I went to pay for it. I'll insist to pay, but if they insist again to pay, I'd let them, and in response to a free drink, I'd tip the server that extra instead. That was my personal code.
Of course, dating online from me started 15 years ago, and ended 7 years ago when I met my love. What's it like today? I don't know. If I didn't have my husband I know I wouldn't go back to an app today everything humans touch has been heavily monetized, if even before it was only lightly monetized. I always used Plenty of Fish, idk if that matters.
It's not good to generalize men, nor is is good to generalize women. You end up boxing yourself in. Better to treat each person you meet with no expectations, and you'll never be disappointed. I've had some guys I've dated do really shitty things. There are guys who are willing to talk to you everyday for six weeks, spend two weeks more to hit the three date marker, sleep together, and then- they ghost. Some men will put two months of effort in to get laid, then ghost. It hurts a lot, especially when you think you have connection.
I never let it make me resentful towards all men, because I've also dated total sweethearts, they're out there. I found one. Im lucky.
Keep hope, and maybe you will too. I truly believe I was able to score such a baddie (who btw at the time had the same income as I did) because for the year and a half leading up to him I did a lot of self work. Not working out, but addressing my flaws, my judgements, my quick temper. Stress management was what I needed most. Just at the moment I felt nearly whole as a single, I met my husband.
I serve him coffee in the morning, not because he expects it, in fact if I ask, he'll say "no I'm going to get up in a second", so I don't ask, I just bring him one. I do it because for one, I like doing acts of service, it's self serving as it makes me feel like im being helpful, and in return I feel good. It's totally selfish first because "he'll think I'm sweet and appreciate it if I do this for him". The "aw babes you didn't have to" gives me dopamine like nothing else. He always denies my help, so I deny asking and just find ways I can. It doesn't go unappreciated, he is always greatful, and if I bring him coffee four days in a row, and on the fifth day don't, he doesn't even mention it, he'll get up, kiss me and ask if I want Dunkin. He supports himself without complaint, and is always appreciative. My doing kind things is "extra" for him, and I feel the same. (Lol edit: I could absolutely describe my husband and strong and independent)
I've dated men who you bring coffee for four days, and not on the fifth, they've now expected my service, and complain. Some will even poke, "why didn't you bring me coffee today? Are you mad? Did I do something?" And it would turn to a fight. Those men, are not the type I entertain much longer. As soon as I don't feel appreciated and like I've expectations not my own, placed on me by someone else, I am out.
But second, my husband deserves it. Because whether I look good or like shit, whether I bust ass and handle business, or I lay on the couch frozen depressed, he still loves me the same. He's earned my service over and over and over again, just by being a kind and helpful human to me over the years. So I return the kindness with more.
And to be honest, I don't always know how to support him on depressed days. I don't think he knows what to do for me either, but we both respond to each other's moments with thst kindness. I'll make a special dessert for him, or run an errand he doesn't want to run that day. I make myself available if he wants to talk, He does similar for me. I annoy him sometimes with "is there anything I can do for you to help?" But I still ask, and give him love when he says no or idk. Sometimes what he needs is space, (hey me too) and we do that for eachother.
Give kindness and you get it back. It's so silly but it's how I've lived. It hasn't shielded me from pain, but it sure does make more opportunity for kind moments in life. If you're looking for a fight, you will find one. If your looking to spread kindness, you'll find that returned too.
Best of luck out there, I know it's tough. I hope you find someone, even if it's a dog or a friend or a life partner, that shows you the kindness your heart needs.
Edit: it's so corny, and I doubt you'll watch it. But as a teenager I watched the movie "Under the Tuscan Sun". Its a cheesy film, but with a really sweet message.
The woman is looking for love, and finds it, but not in the way she expected, it's very sweet and I think helped me personally, in those formative years to drop expectations or at least, allow room for them to adjust. If you're feeling lonely, no one will know you watched an old chick movie, and it might help you feel better to look at love differently as the woman is faced to in the movie. No one has to know you watched it lol
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Interesting.
Is it just that younger people experience more social anxiety or that it's now frowned upon to be hit on? I used to be hit on a lot between the ages of 19 and 25; it felt gross sometimes but it was the norm. There seems to be more anxiety these days to meet people face to face. I wonder if social media has anything to do with it.
it's now frowned upon to be hit on?
It's frowned upon to hit on someone who doesn't have an exit from the situation: a customer talking to a retail/hospitality worker whose job includes not pissing off customers, colleagues who need to continue working with each other (or worse, a superior-subordinate relationship), etc.
I don't know what 20-somethings are doing these days, but navigating that transition from school to young independent adulthood was something difficult every generation had to do. It's just that this generation may have had their social skills development stilted during COVID or the smartphone era so that they're less equipped to make that jump, and that gap is leaving a greater proportion of that population behind.
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apps centered on polyamory tend to be far less hostile to its users. I assume it's because a user getting one or two good relationships out of the app doesn't lose them those users.
Are there such apps? Hinge at least lets you set that as your goal without paying money, but after a while I ran out of users. It literally said like "There's no one left". I live in NYC.
I set it back to "poly or mono" and got dates again, but mostly mono people. (I'm a very average ~40 y/o guy who doesn't date men)
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And if it's not Rogan, it's some other right-adjacent influencer. It's fucking weird too. They're regular dudes, helping old ladies on the street and supporting a neighbor. Then suddenly, they crack and share how terrible women are.
Yeah.... Idk what it's all about. A lot of the girls in the company have issues with dudes who like the idea of hooking up with a dancer, then as soon as they get in a committed relationship they want them to quit because they get insanely jealous of other people watching them dance.
The younger crowd of men seem to be super possessive and simultaneously believe that girls only have sex to get things they want and at the same time are massive sluts who can't be trusted not to cheat......
then as soon as they get in a committed relationship they want them to quit because they get insanely jealous of other people watching them dance.
I think a lot of people are really bad at managing their emotions, especially jealousy.
A friend was telling me about her friend and that friend's boyfriend. They'd go to concerts together, and the guy would get like super raging jealous that she was dancing in the crowd. Like, grow fucking up. She's super into you, why are you destroying this relationship? Let her fucking dance.
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Every starting conversation on Bumble was like:
"Hey"
A couple times I asked people directly if that opener worked for them.
One of them said, "I used to write more thoughtful first messages, but I didn't get good results so I don't bother anymore." I told her that writing a bad opener is likely turning away whole classes of people, likely the more thoughtful and interesting ones, but she didn't care. I said we weren't a good match and moved on.
Another one said, "But you responded so it worked!". Her profile was also largely blank. I said yeah, but it didn't make me want to date you. It was a bad first impression that made me think you're a half-asser. Rude, I know. The conversation ended shortly after.
I think communication is a skill that requires practice and feedback. Writing messages on dating apps is a more specialized form of that skill. I have years of practice now (sad, but here we are). A 30 year old woman downloading bumble for the first time, asked to write first messages? That's kind of like putting someone on the baseball field who's never played before. They probably know most of the rules intellectually, and in other parts of life they've done all the little pieces like throwing, running, and catching, but doing it all together at the right time? Not likely to go well at first.
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Why are you expecting conversations to be otherworldly?
How many conversations in real life with people you like start with something akin to "hey"? I'm gunna bet most but I suppose I could be wrong.
There is a whole universe of possibilities between "hey" and a conversation so good it is otherworldly.
Most of these apps, the user has a profile. If they're not fucking it up, the profile has topics to talk about.
"Hey! Your profile says you love the mets. Do you go to a lot of games? I used to go with my pop, but he just watches the game on TV now" isn't stellar but it's significantly better.
If the other person responds with "Nah [end of communication]" then they're doing a bad job. I'd see that all the time and it drove me crazy.
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Honestly, 90% of the need for dating apps would vanish if people had more free time away from work and well-kept public spaces for entertainment that didn't expect you to purchase anything.
So rather than a government-run dating app, how about a government-sanctioned 4 day work week and well kept public parks?
Yet again, low-density exclusionary zoning causing car-dependency (which is why the "third spaces" you're talking about have all-but disappeared) is revealed as the root cause of almost every problem we have.
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There is a whole universe of possibilities between "hey" and a conversation so good it is otherworldly.
Most of these apps, the user has a profile. If they're not fucking it up, the profile has topics to talk about.
"Hey! Your profile says you love the mets. Do you go to a lot of games? I used to go with my pop, but he just watches the game on TV now" isn't stellar but it's significantly better.
If the other person responds with "Nah [end of communication]" then they're doing a bad job. I'd see that all the time and it drove me crazy.
You both seem to ignore the fact that conversation is two way and that conversations from nothing ie. Small talk is extremely off-putting.
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You both seem to ignore the fact that conversation is two way and that conversations from nothing ie. Small talk is extremely off-putting.
How am I ignoring that conversation is two way? I specifically mentioned it's a bad job when one person engages and the other half-asses it with one word responses.
I don't see what small talk being off-putting has to do with anything. I don't know if I even consider talking about your interests small talk, but okay. How else do you expect it to work?
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short answer:
Dating Apps/Sites are basically social media sites, they only really work via the network effect, by being so huge that they necessitate significant financial investment.
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long answer:
A dating app is only broadly, mass appeal successful if it can scale to have a wide selection of people, users, ideally, in as many places as possible.
This requires a large amount of servers.
A large amount of servers requires a large amount of money.
A large amount of money requires investors.
Investors require as much profit as possible.
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A conventional dating site/app, as we think of the big ones today... its a social media platform.
Just with a different, more constrained feature set, a different UI... but roughly similar levels of network infrastructure and overhead.
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You could actually make a reasonable argument for running a non profit, or ... some kind of collectively owned and operated dating service that is restricted to say a city or small region, or maybe a neighborhood in a larger city.
(Indeed, many of the older ones kind of began this way, pitched more like a ... a club that you join and pay membership dues for, thats how they were marketed in the late 90s / early 00s... though these of course were largely actually privately owned, but the marketing angle was that of 'exclusive community')
The technicals of exactly how to do that, legally and financially, might end up being impractical though... and if the government is directly involved, well... 10, 20 years ago I would say thats a rather serious privacy problem, but at least in the US right now, I am sure Tinder will sell your info to a data broker who sells it to the FBI if they want to investigate you, so.... yeah.
The other obvious problem is that the best dating app is the one you use the least... so... some kind of unconventional payment structure would have to be figured out, to counteract this massive and glaring incentive conflict between app and user.
Maybe high upfront fixed costs to the user, but if you don't find a good match after a year, 75% gets refunded to you?
Not sure. Could be legal nightmare.
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Other than that, privately owned and operated dating communities can work fairly well without huge server overhead... if they are precisely targeted at a pretty specific kind of people, be it a religion, or a bdsm community, or a specific ethnicity, who knows... those can at least theoretically work at a larger geographic scale, because that kind of scale doesn't also massively ramp up user count.
But there's nothing stopping them from being bought out if they get too big.
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Bonus!
Job application / recruiting sites are also basically dating apps/sites.
Its just person vs job instead of person vs person.
Broadly, guys on dating sites have been flooding women with match requests for years now, women have been overwhelmed by the volume and believe they can be very picky.
Now replace 'guys' with 'job seekers', 'match requests' with 'applications' and 'women' with 'companies'.
Both scenarios result in wasteful amounts of energy going into 'match-making', which is horrendously inefficient.
Wow, that's an incredibly insightful answer. I suppose I never considered the scale of it. Most are fairly bare bones, but you are right, there are so many users and repeat users that it would scale very poorly.
You're also right on the social media part of it. There kindof needs to be secondary engagement thing to attract and support the community.
Always felt that dating apps were a little too ?accesible? That is to say that they are exceedingly easily flooded by no or low effort profiles, abandoned and duplicate profiles. Especially by desperate men who are completely undiscerning and undereducated (consent, sex, sexuality, etc...).
I feel like there should be engagement/social/education tiers that grant more access to more features. Like literally give points if you can pass tests on consent, relationships, kink, whatever. Get social points from good engagement and behavior. These don't show your profile more or less, but like if the medium has NSFW features, forums, criteria/location filtering it gives access to them based on community trust and such. Maybe offer a paid shortcut, but have that declared on their profile somehow.
Could be nice. But I'd also probably have the swiping style app be accessory to a more traditional forum.
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Wow, that's an incredibly insightful answer. I suppose I never considered the scale of it. Most are fairly bare bones, but you are right, there are so many users and repeat users that it would scale very poorly.
You're also right on the social media part of it. There kindof needs to be secondary engagement thing to attract and support the community.
Always felt that dating apps were a little too ?accesible? That is to say that they are exceedingly easily flooded by no or low effort profiles, abandoned and duplicate profiles. Especially by desperate men who are completely undiscerning and undereducated (consent, sex, sexuality, etc...).
I feel like there should be engagement/social/education tiers that grant more access to more features. Like literally give points if you can pass tests on consent, relationships, kink, whatever. Get social points from good engagement and behavior. These don't show your profile more or less, but like if the medium has NSFW features, forums, criteria/location filtering it gives access to them based on community trust and such. Maybe offer a paid shortcut, but have that declared on their profile somehow.
Could be nice. But I'd also probably have the swiping style app be accessory to a more traditional forum.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I feel like there should be engagement/social/education tiers that grant more access to more features. Like literally give points if you can pass tests on consent, relationships, kink, whatever. Get social points from good engagement and behavior. These don't show your profile more or less, but like if the medium has NSFW features, forums, criteria/location filtering it gives access to them based on community trust and such. Maybe offer a paid shortcut, but have that declared on their profile somehow.
I like this line of thinking.
I more or less used to use OkCupid in this way... it has so many questions you can answer that basicsally, if you have your own set of hard red flags... just look through their answers to questions.
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You could theorerically do a paid shortcut for some things, but not others.
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With my gamer brain, the first thing that comes to mind is pay to win games:
You can design a game such that... you can reasonably progress through the game, get good items, level up reasonably quickly... without having to spend any more real world money.
Warframe is arguably a good example of this.
You can just play a fleshed out and enjoyable game and progress at a reasonable rate without spending any real world money, everything in the game is obtainable without more money if you're good at the game... but if you just have cash to burn, you csn just outright buy some high level gear, basically, to say, join up with some friends who've been playing for a long time, without playing for 50 or 100 hours to be on their level.
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But you can also make it just an absolutely hellish slog to progress through the game, such that you finally get tired of grinding and have that 'fuck it!' moment, and just pay to progress... and then you at first find those payments are rather cheap actually... but if you keep playing, the actual money costs ramp up faster and faster, alongside your time devoted to the game, so now you've got sunk cost and your brain sunk cost fallacy's you into just still playing and spending.
This is pretty much how WarThunder is designed.
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But uh yeah, ramble ramble... I like your basic framework here, but again the problem with monetization is thag is has to be reasonable and apparent to everyone, your idea of badges that show everyone this is I think good.
I am just very worried that if this whole app is privately owned... it will inevitably enshittify and subvert itseld to being an evil money draining skinner box as it attracts more investors or gets new owners or goes public or whatever.
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EDIT:
oh right
Wow, that's an incredibly insightful answer.
Thank you! =D
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Our first date was a walk in the park because we couldn't decide. We walked for hours. I felt safe enough to even go back to his spot after where we smoked cannabis and talked still, for many more hours. Our first date was like 6 hours long and cost nothing but a bit of gas for the drive.
The spool of wire guy, is that the fella who's sitting outside reminiscing when he first bought that giant spool of wire and now it was gone? A very sweet, sentimental moment for thst guy.
Not gonna lie, some women are like that I've heard. I've never been friends with those types. Shallow people gonna shallow. Before I met my husband, most commonly my first dates were usually bar dates, where I would pay my own drink, or be turned down when I went to pay for it. I'll insist to pay, but if they insist again to pay, I'd let them, and in response to a free drink, I'd tip the server that extra instead. That was my personal code.
Of course, dating online from me started 15 years ago, and ended 7 years ago when I met my love. What's it like today? I don't know. If I didn't have my husband I know I wouldn't go back to an app today everything humans touch has been heavily monetized, if even before it was only lightly monetized. I always used Plenty of Fish, idk if that matters.
It's not good to generalize men, nor is is good to generalize women. You end up boxing yourself in. Better to treat each person you meet with no expectations, and you'll never be disappointed. I've had some guys I've dated do really shitty things. There are guys who are willing to talk to you everyday for six weeks, spend two weeks more to hit the three date marker, sleep together, and then- they ghost. Some men will put two months of effort in to get laid, then ghost. It hurts a lot, especially when you think you have connection.
I never let it make me resentful towards all men, because I've also dated total sweethearts, they're out there. I found one. Im lucky.
Keep hope, and maybe you will too. I truly believe I was able to score such a baddie (who btw at the time had the same income as I did) because for the year and a half leading up to him I did a lot of self work. Not working out, but addressing my flaws, my judgements, my quick temper. Stress management was what I needed most. Just at the moment I felt nearly whole as a single, I met my husband.
I serve him coffee in the morning, not because he expects it, in fact if I ask, he'll say "no I'm going to get up in a second", so I don't ask, I just bring him one. I do it because for one, I like doing acts of service, it's self serving as it makes me feel like im being helpful, and in return I feel good. It's totally selfish first because "he'll think I'm sweet and appreciate it if I do this for him". The "aw babes you didn't have to" gives me dopamine like nothing else. He always denies my help, so I deny asking and just find ways I can. It doesn't go unappreciated, he is always greatful, and if I bring him coffee four days in a row, and on the fifth day don't, he doesn't even mention it, he'll get up, kiss me and ask if I want Dunkin. He supports himself without complaint, and is always appreciative. My doing kind things is "extra" for him, and I feel the same. (Lol edit: I could absolutely describe my husband and strong and independent)
I've dated men who you bring coffee for four days, and not on the fifth, they've now expected my service, and complain. Some will even poke, "why didn't you bring me coffee today? Are you mad? Did I do something?" And it would turn to a fight. Those men, are not the type I entertain much longer. As soon as I don't feel appreciated and like I've expectations not my own, placed on me by someone else, I am out.
But second, my husband deserves it. Because whether I look good or like shit, whether I bust ass and handle business, or I lay on the couch frozen depressed, he still loves me the same. He's earned my service over and over and over again, just by being a kind and helpful human to me over the years. So I return the kindness with more.
And to be honest, I don't always know how to support him on depressed days. I don't think he knows what to do for me either, but we both respond to each other's moments with thst kindness. I'll make a special dessert for him, or run an errand he doesn't want to run that day. I make myself available if he wants to talk, He does similar for me. I annoy him sometimes with "is there anything I can do for you to help?" But I still ask, and give him love when he says no or idk. Sometimes what he needs is space, (hey me too) and we do that for eachother.
Give kindness and you get it back. It's so silly but it's how I've lived. It hasn't shielded me from pain, but it sure does make more opportunity for kind moments in life. If you're looking for a fight, you will find one. If your looking to spread kindness, you'll find that returned too.
Best of luck out there, I know it's tough. I hope you find someone, even if it's a dog or a friend or a life partner, that shows you the kindness your heart needs.
Edit: it's so corny, and I doubt you'll watch it. But as a teenager I watched the movie "Under the Tuscan Sun". Its a cheesy film, but with a really sweet message.
The woman is looking for love, and finds it, but not in the way she expected, it's very sweet and I think helped me personally, in those formative years to drop expectations or at least, allow room for them to adjust. If you're feeling lonely, no one will know you watched an old chick movie, and it might help you feel better to look at love differently as the woman is faced to in the movie. No one has to know you watched it lol
Yeah, I can see why you got the old nut and bolt, if that's your take from Dan The Spool Of Wire Man. You didn't get it anymore than his wife did. "I've had this spool of wire for 40 years, it used to be this big, now it's about out." He's having some pretty heavy thoughts about his life, where he is in it, how much of it is left, what it's all meant. And before he even gets a real chance to articulate all that, didn't even get a chance to get to the feelings part, his wife interrupts him to give him shit about his hat. And just watch him shut down.
A woman that views that clip and perceives it as a "sweet sentimental moment" isn't empathizing with men. Those men that pumped and dumped you, that you thought you felt a connection with? Yeah they didn't, and I can see why. Gave you the old Phillip J. Fry: Just make up some feelings and tell her you have them.
As for all that crap about cups of coffee...In my home, if I want something to drink, I prepare it and drink it. If I want something to eat, I cook it and eat it. I've been single for a shade over 5 years now and not a single meal in my house has turned into a game of feelings jenga. And if I'm going to live the next 40 years of my life alone, sleeping alone, waking alone, eating alone, drinking alone, working alone, resting alone, dying alone, it will be a bargain price to pay to never again emotionally posture over who makes a fucking cup of coffee.
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Where are we getting the funds for Lemmy and its instances?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Donations and many self hosted volunteers, helped by the unique nature of the fediverse architecture also distributing burdens, fewer users, and lower computation/storage/availability requirements (compared to a more centralized service like a dating app).
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It’s almost as if men are a little bit hornier than women…
wrote last edited by [email protected]That's an outdated, lazy, and inaccurate generalization.
Women are just as horny as men but straight women experience higher risks engaging in dating than gay men experience resulting in more caution and selectivity engagement.
Straight women who are able to have as much sex as they want tend to be those who are in stable, long-term relationships. The bottleneck is safety as a hard requirement for sex.
