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Well there actually is a problem this can help solve. Malware. There are other concerns that are bigger motivators for Google, but the ability to lock shit down can help control security issues.
Most people can’t get the software they run on their devices. The idea of “you can trust me, bro” is fucking dumb, even in the open-source world. This helps nerf this for the stupid people who buy this shit. It’s a priority because there are more stupid people willing to buy a product and put up with its bullshit than there are smart people willing to put in the effort themselves.
But also money.
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I can't even get people to switch to LibreOffice, not cuz they use some advanced MS Office feature but because the interface "looks dated". So they'd rather pay a subscription for life to use software that spies on them than download free software that does what they need but has a 2010s style interface.
Humans suck so much.
I get what you are saying but is it really too much to ask for an interface that looks like it belongs there?
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meh both on mac and windows you’re not the true admin of the machine. mac requires disabling SIP and some others to even be able to delete default applications for example and don’t get me started on windows. linux ftw (as I type this from my old ass ios device)
you can get all the right you need with a little trickery. I mean, psexec is made and distributed by Microsoft, freely. a simple download. and I don't think it's bad that the average user can't run everything immediately as TrustedInstaller or SYSTEM.
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From a personal freedom POV, I agree. But, if it was easy it would be a support nightmare.
Google and Apple scan every app that gets loaded into their app stores for malware. There's also a lengthy review process, even just for updates. Some malware does still slip through, but it's a trickle compared to what gets blocked. If sideloading apps were easy, my younger sister would be in so much trouble. She'd have various accounts phished within a day. She'd install something that drains the battery within an hour and not understand what was going wrong. And, she's relatively tech savvy. I have no idea how the older generation would survive.
Of course, since Apple and Google make 30% of every sale on the app store, they're not purely motivated to just keep their users safe. The real problem is that there is a duopoly in smartphones. Apple and Google have essentially the same policies, and if you don't like them you have no other options. If there were a dozen OSes, there could be smart phones for Granny that had everything locked down, and smart phones for h4x04z that didn't. Companies that struck a good balance between protecting their users and allowing their users freedom would do well in the market. Companies that didn't would shrink and fail.
my younger sister would be in so much trouble.
your younger syster should have parental controls on, and it's worrying that you suggest it is not the case. I don't know their age but most probably they shouldn't be able to install any apps from anywhere without parent approval.
She'd have various accounts phished within a day.
guessing fron what we already know, she probably shouldn't have half of those accounts.
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Not corporate IT, but IT for home users, back in the days when things were much less locked down basically every computer i got access too was completely crawling with malware. Had tons of people lose all of their data including family photos and the like because they dowloaded something dodgy off limewire and their system just let them run it.
Why cant you guys understand that the vast vast majority of computer users are not technical? And as such need those safety rails in place to save them from their own ignorance?
wrote last edited by [email protected]they are crawling with malware today, from the factory, except it is harder to remove, especially on smartphones.
safety rails are not steal walls. instead of walls education is needed. education can happen not only in schools.
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Sounds fairly sane to me.
This is fine, but the other 582 pages contain some real doozies.
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Well there actually is a problem this can help solve. Malware. There are other concerns that are bigger motivators for Google, but the ability to lock shit down can help control security issues.
Most people can’t get the software they run on their devices. The idea of “you can trust me, bro” is fucking dumb, even in the open-source world. This helps nerf this for the stupid people who buy this shit. It’s a priority because there are more stupid people willing to buy a product and put up with its bullshit than there are smart people willing to put in the effort themselves.
But also money.
Well there actually is a problem this can help solve. Malware.
Most of the malware on Android is already on the Play Store. I mean that both in a snarky and sarcastic fashion, but also literally.
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Even people who are not being supported by any IT department at all? For example, home users. If they break their device they will learn how to not break their next one and therefore become more technologically proficient.
oooh boy, do I have a bridge to sell to you
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my younger sister would be in so much trouble.
your younger syster should have parental controls on, and it's worrying that you suggest it is not the case. I don't know their age but most probably they shouldn't be able to install any apps from anywhere without parent approval.
She'd have various accounts phished within a day.
guessing fron what we already know, she probably shouldn't have half of those accounts.
My younger sister is in her 40s. She's a pretty typical cell phone user.
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So annoyed that just bought a Pixel 8a for Graphene. I thought I'd get to use it til 2030 when it stops getting security patches and now I might not even get a full year out of it.
GrapheneOS still intends to support all the supported devices until EOL. The sideloading change doesn't affect them. It won’t apply to GrapheneOS. It only applies to certified OSes and GrapheneOS is not certified because it doesn’t license Google Mobile Services. As per the rip out of the device trees for Pixels, that just makes Pixels like other phones. GrapheneOS has been able to expand it's automation to build that device support themselves. For new devices, making the support will take longer than it did in the past though, but they will still support those Pixels, as long as they meet the hardware requirements and still allow third-party OS support with all security features intact. Besides that GrapheneOS is actively talking with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them reach the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about that.
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Well there actually is a problem this can help solve. Malware. There are other concerns that are bigger motivators for Google, but the ability to lock shit down can help control security issues.
Most people can’t get the software they run on their devices. The idea of “you can trust me, bro” is fucking dumb, even in the open-source world. This helps nerf this for the stupid people who buy this shit. It’s a priority because there are more stupid people willing to buy a product and put up with its bullshit than there are smart people willing to put in the effort themselves.
But also money.
It should be as easy to do as enabling developer options on your android. Tap a certain thing several times in a row and it unlocks it, permanently.
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I finally want to switch to android and boom: Custom ROMs and "sideloading" gets swept off the platter. Well ok I guess I‘ll just wait for a good linux mobile OS
Heh, good luck trying to sideload anything on Linux...
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Not corporate IT, but IT for home users, back in the days when things were much less locked down basically every computer i got access too was completely crawling with malware. Had tons of people lose all of their data including family photos and the like because they dowloaded something dodgy off limewire and their system just let them run it.
Why cant you guys understand that the vast vast majority of computer users are not technical? And as such need those safety rails in place to save them from their own ignorance?
Most Android phone owners don't even know they are Android phone owners.
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I'm probably going to spam this around a bit, since most people don't seem to know about it, but a reminder that FuriLabs has a (GNU+)Linux phone with decent spec.s and the ability to run Android app.s (from what I've heard) pretty decently: https://furilabs.com/
Biggest drawback is it's based on Halium. Usual growing pains of a new product/company apply but apparently the company is pretty responsive and their dev.s have worked with customers to get things like calling working with the carrier and bands of their country where it hasn't worked before so improvements move pretty quickly.
Collection of different experiences I've variously seen online over the last year or so:
- https://clehaxze.tw/gemlog/2025/07-20-flx1-actually-usable-linux-phone.gmi
- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41839326
- https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1fa1ljn/furilabs_flx1/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1j46f2w/flx1_linux_phone_display_out/
- https://www.theregister.com/2025/02/03/furiphone_flx1/
I don't own one, myself, so I can't give any personal experience but I've seen it around for a few years now but most people don't seem to even know about it. Maybe there's a reason for that? But none I've ever seen anyone say.
You can't sideload in Linux. Not unless you have a PHD in computer engineering.
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The key thing to understand is that there's a big fucking difference between a "repository" and an "app store." One is designed for the convenience of users; the other is designed to exploit them.
There is no functional difference.
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That's a moron take. Plenty of people have no business downloading random apps. It takes all of 15 seconds with a Google search to side load. It's a fucking idiot test.
But yeah I'm sure if this check weren't there people would flock to fdroid
wrote last edited by [email protected]But they would use the Play store wouldn't they. They're not going to use the "dark web" (aka beyond the first 5 entries on a Google search).
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You already can't "sideload" without navigating the options and going through a big scary pop-up saying you better know what you're doing. In other words, it's already locked down enough.
This is not about making grandma safe. It is about control.
Well not really because scammers post things like "install this NOW to protect your system !" and Uncle Eugene clicks it through.
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I get what you are saying but is it really too much to ask for an interface that looks like it belongs there?
I prefer the old school style menus and such. I stopped using MS Word around the time that they came out with the 'ribbon' style menus or whatever it's called, so if they 'update' it I sure hope it's as an option or a fork.
I can understand people who grew up with it or who have spent years using it might like it better though.
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If I ever go insane and write a manifesto this will be on it.
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We'll always need safety rails, I think the thing you're missing in most of the arguments you're seeing here is that people want ways over or around those safety rails, and that those safety rails do not need to be as strict as they're becoming. That is not the case currently and that is definitely not the direction AOSP or iOS are interested in going.
Also, just for the record, comparing the modern era of computing to the limewire era is bananas.
Exactly.
I have no problem with safety rails for those who need it, my problem is that with each passing update these rails become obligatory and non-removable.
