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Doesn’t android allow this?
That's what the OP is referring to: Google just announced they will do their best to kill off sideloading.
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You're right that there's value in having a software repository with "vetted" apps in it. And at the same time, there's a difference between "here's stuff we've done some kind of due diligence on" and "you aren't allowed to install anything we haven't okayed." That's what Apple and now Google are doing.
(I also think there's value in having a word like "sideload" to describe the action of installing software not in a repository. It's just that it's tied up now in this paternal attitude from the big companies)
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One person's inability to use a common device is not an excuse to make it worse for everyone else.
My parents are pretty incompetent when it comes to tech, but it wasn't difficult for them to understand not to install random shit and call if in doubt.
It's not one person, it's the vast majority of the userbase.
Which, to be clear, is again not a reason to have a duopoly decide what software can be made or executed in the first place. It's fine to have Google decide what the Play store will carry, and it's even fine for Android devices to require a manual bypass to run unsigned software. It's not fine for Apple and Google (and I guess Huawei by necessity) to have final arbitrary say on what software is acceptable on all handheld mobile devices.
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That's a moron take. Plenty of people have no business downloading random apps. It takes all of 15 seconds with a Google search to side load. It's a fucking idiot test.
But yeah I'm sure if this check weren't there people would flock to fdroid
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That's a moron take. Plenty of people have no business downloading random apps. It takes all of 15 seconds with a Google search to side load. It's a fucking idiot test.
But yeah I'm sure if this check weren't there people would flock to fdroid
I think this is referring to recent news that google is trying to ban non-google-play installs (aka: sideloading)
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People cannot be trusted to govern themselves, this is why I am supporting the redcoats. HAIL KING GEORGE III! /s
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Some of these comments are wild.
The OS should not at all stop me from doing what I want to do. Ever. Not even if that means I can fuck it up.
They can warn me when I attempt to do things that could fuck shit up. They can make it a bit harder to navigate to certain things so I'm less likely to fuck shit up. But it's my god damn hardware. I should be able to run and configure the software on it as I see fit.
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That's the same argument people used to praise Microsoft for forcing mandatory updates.
Every year they force untested updates breaking the OS or even bricking the hardware.
And Windows is still vulnerable despite the updates. -
All those "apps" are websites. You could say NFC is special, but so is gps.
Exactly. Locking basic services behind apps should be illegal. Services must be accessible to everyone.
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That's what the OP is referring to: Google just announced they will do their best to kill off sideloading.
I had no idea. Damn…
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Some of these comments are wild.
The OS should not at all stop me from doing what I want to do. Ever. Not even if that means I can fuck it up.
They can warn me when I attempt to do things that could fuck shit up. They can make it a bit harder to navigate to certain things so I'm less likely to fuck shit up. But it's my god damn hardware. I should be able to run and configure the software on it as I see fit.
meh both on mac and windows you’re not the true admin of the machine. mac requires disabling SIP and some others to even be able to delete default applications for example and don’t get me started on windows. linux ftw (as I type this from my old ass ios device)
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But these users can fuck their phone up perfectly fine with the offerings provided by the horribly curated play store and thats even intentional. I dont doubt there are also techilliterate users who seek out dodgy sites to sideload some shitty apk. But i dont believe google one bit this move is made to make the experience more secure for this subset of users. Its about as much control as possible over their platform because the line must go up.
But i dont believe google one bit this move is made to make the experience more secure for this subset of users.
It's in their financial interests if their platforms aren't synonymous with data breaches. So yes, the security of users is a prerequisite to their profit-driven goals.
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That's fine. They should be LEGALLY required to allow ME to make that call and offer an avenue to allow me to remove it all.
Nobody is saying everyone's machine MUST be completely open and insecure.
But that's a far cry from giving me no recourse to make MY hardware do what I want it to.
And before anybody screams "liability", they're going to hold you to an EULA anyway - throw a couple lines in there.
Nobody is saying everyone's machine MUST be completely open and insecure.
Neither am I. I don't disagree that Google is overstepping with the restrictions they're imposing lately. It's a point I'll damn well argue, myself.
The problem I take is with the argument the OP presents, because it incorrectly suggests that the average user has (or should have) an expert-level knowledge of their devices. Safety rails exist for a reason. Yes, they're going too far; but no, removing them outright would not be the better solution.
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meh both on mac and windows you’re not the true admin of the machine. mac requires disabling SIP and some others to even be able to delete default applications for example and don’t get me started on windows. linux ftw (as I type this from my old ass ios device)
To be clear, Kolanaki is saying that that is not how an OS should behave.
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Yeah this is where I'm at too, there is no reason these device makers should be locking us out of doing what we want with our phones. Their app store can exist along side other install options and compete on usability instead of monopoly.
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That just sounds like the system needs a separate "Admin" mode to do things like that. Your mom can take the risk of messing with that herself (which can be very educational!), or leave that for you or someone else to handle. But that would let her make a more informed choice, even without technical ability.
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That's the same argument people used to praise Microsoft for forcing mandatory updates.
Every year they force untested updates breaking the OS or even bricking the hardware.
And Windows is still vulnerable despite the updates.This is weird in so many ways I have a hard time keeping track.
I mean, no, it's not the same argument. One thing is about how when you have billions of handheld devices largely meant to function as out-of-the-box platforms for specific uses for non-tech savvy users it helps to have them locked out of the box to minimize software issues and maintenance. The other is about peace of mind and automated upkeep during downtime.
But at the same time... yeah, automated updates (which is not the same as mandatory updates) are a good thing. Especially for mainstream home computers that don't have a sysadmin looking after them from a centralized location and have their upkeep down to whatever an individual user decides to do and when. There's a reason a number of Linux distros meant for home devices also install updates in the background. It's a good idea for gaming devices and home computers. The thing that used to piss people off about MS updates is that they used to interrupt people's work to make them happen, which was exceedingly stupid.
None of which has anything to do with Windows or Microsoft pushing bad updates. Bad updates are bad and they aren't any better for not being automated. Nobody cares if you updated yourself or the OS did it for you. If the system pushes a bad patch that bricks your system that's really bad. That should never happen. For the record, it has happened to me way more often on Linux, but your mileage may vary.
And nooone of that has anything to do with vulnerabilities persisting. All systems have vulnerabilities. It's about striking the right balance between how bad those are and how practical it is to close them up. You keep things as secure as you can while keeping them usable, based on what they are being used for.
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This does feel like a bit of a double-standard to me. I’ve hated how Microsoft and Apple have introduced app stores on Windows and macOS and try to push people to only install from there instead of directly from the developer. And yet on Linux the advice seems to be never ever download directly from the developer; you should only download from the package repository provided by your OS (which sure feels like an App Store). And that package probably wasn’t even provided by the developer or the OS but some random volunteer that you just assume has good intentions.
My package manager installs all of the dependencies the program needs and takes care of updates, too. If I install directly from the developer, I have to do all that myself. Fuck that.
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You're right that there's value in having a software repository with "vetted" apps in it. And at the same time, there's a difference between "here's stuff we've done some kind of due diligence on" and "you aren't allowed to install anything we haven't okayed." That's what Apple and now Google are doing.
(I also think there's value in having a word like "sideload" to describe the action of installing software not in a repository. It's just that it's tied up now in this paternal attitude from the big companies)
Yep. No disagreement from me on any of that.
At most I'd argue that I don't mind that Apple does that as long as someone else does not. If Apple wants to have a closed system that's all good, but from the perspective of regulation and anti-trust you can't have EVERY platform be closed. You need at least one viable open competitor to prevent the owners of the hardware from owning all the software by definition. It's just like I don't have a problem with Nintendo needing to certify all the games on the Switch as long as there is a Steam Deck, or Sony certifying PS5 games as long as you can run games on a PC.
But if all the software on the planet had to be on either the PS5 store or the Nintendo eShop I would absolutely have a problem with those being locked down. That's what this shift means for the mobile market.
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If you used Linux before the repos were fully developed then you understand why they were created.
Who else remembers "dependency hell?"
Corpos just took the same idea and twisted it into something else.
Dependency hell was what drove me back to Windows. Fortunately, I didn't stay there and I learned how to apt-get.
