[PSA] Lemmy account deletion is a mess
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I'm not sure what OP meant but I think none of the comments here are nailing it. If we say, we can't do anything unless it's 100% certain that all instances comply with the protocol, we might scrap the whole Fediverse idea altogether. Any post or comment or vote or deletion could be tempered with in one way or another. I mean we're clearly making an effort here to do federation. I don't really agree with the why and how of the whole discussion. My own point is, the software seems to have some bugs. Rarely, some comments and posts don't federate to me correctly, and more often than that, deletions don't federate correctly. Which seems to be one of OP's problems, but also while dealing with spam or malicious activities.
On the other hand, everyone who thinks it's super easy to just delete everything has never had a look at the consequences. Moderators and Admins sometimes need to deal with bad people, there are technical reasons involved. And bad people also misuse features. It's complicated for several reasons, difficult to get it right and it's always a balance between opposing legitimate interests.
But with that said, this doesn't apply to bugs. Lemmy should at least iron out the software bugs to federate activities to other instances properly.
No OPs point is not that there are bugs and deletions arent federating properly. OP expects functionality that doesnt exist and does not make sense and believes they are being tricked by this feature not existing.
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How has anyone been mislead
How again would anybody be mislead if deletions were being federated? Use this answer to answer yourself.
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No OPs point is not that there are bugs and deletions arent federating properly. OP expects functionality that doesnt exist and does not make sense and believes they are being tricked by this feature not existing.
What the hell are you on about? Lots of interesting assumptions about me in this topic
BTW the deletion of the jlai.lu account that i created 2 days ago worked just as i would have expected it originally. The comment i posted on here is deleted and the account is not reachable from other instances. Jlai.lu runs an outdated lemmy version (0.19.5)
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Tl;dr: Yes, it's complicated.
Hmmh. I think 1) just means it has to be implemented properly. But you're right. That sounds exactly like something a developer would do. Unlink the information and at the same time add a timestamp that immediately links it again
And I'm not sure about 3) I'd have to read the GDPR again. Afaik it just mandates the user is provided with the ability to do so. Not that it needs to be the default.
And 2) is kind of my question. I suppose a user who is about to delete their account, might not be super relaxed and ready to deal with the intricate details. I mean they could be pissed and want out asap. Or something happened and they need to get it over with, quickly. Either way, it's probably not the right time to bother them with 500 questions and make them learn about the consequences. Though... They need to do the right thing. Once their account is gone, and it turns out they would have liked to delete more (or less), that's not really possible any more (without manual admin intervention). So maybe it's down to: delete everything in any case, and accept that it has a negative effect on the content on the platform.
It also has to be balanced with handling abuse etc since malicious actors use the same features to cover their tracks.
But I'm probably getting way ahead of where we are. OP said deletion doesn't even propagate through the federated network correctly. So realistically, we probably don't need to bother with the details several steps down the line.
- Hilariously the soution would be facebook style "we won't delete your data if you log back in n days"
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What the hell are you on about? Lots of interesting assumptions about me in this topic
BTW the deletion of the jlai.lu account that i created 2 days ago worked just as i would have expected it originally. The comment i posted on here is deleted and the account is not reachable from other instances. Jlai.lu runs an outdated lemmy version (0.19.5)
Sorry I was wrong. Your post made it seem like this was not working at all.
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If at some point you want to delete your account and have your posts and comments be gone, you better delete it all manually before you actually delete the account, because that deletion process does not really work as advertised.
For my main account on world (which runs an outdated lemmy version), it seemed like at least the account deletion was federated so that my user page was no longer browsable from other instances, but none of my posts, comments or images had been deleted, not even on the home instance.
The homie @[email protected] helped me by manually deleting my stuff, but it seems like that has only worked for the home instance, posts and comments seem to still be readable from other instances (except for some of the images that MrKaplan manually deleted too, but that was only possible up to a date not too far in the past because lemmy used to not associate user uploads with the accounts). So my old posts from the world account can be viewed just fine from other instances:
For other instances that are more up to date the process is even worse imo, while locally things seem to get deleted, federation does not seem to happen at all. For example you can still browse my deleted slrpnk or lemmee accounts from other instances just fine:
https://slrpnk.net/u/[email protected]
https://lemm.ee/u/[email protected]
Account deletion in piefed works kinda like the old lemmy system (as on lemmy.world), and nothing gets deleted except the user page (which also seems to get federated), the posts and comments stay up.
Thought this would be interesting to some, if i had known what a mess this would be (obviously expected some federation issues, just not like that), i would have manually deleted everything. I deleted all these accounts in December, maybe this has been addressed somehow in the meantime, personally i'd have trust issues in this process.
Your account is not your posts. Why would one assume that deleting the account would remove the posts? When a person stops speaking the things they said do not become unsaid. When they die their actions don't retroactively undo themselves.
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Your account is not your posts. Why would one assume that deleting the account would remove the posts? When a person stops speaking the things they said do not become unsaid. When they die their actions don't retroactively undo themselves.
Thank you, Lord Mathias, for blessing me with this insight. I am now at peace.
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If at some point you want to delete your account and have your posts and comments be gone, you better delete it all manually before you actually delete the account, because that deletion process does not really work as advertised.
For my main account on world (which runs an outdated lemmy version), it seemed like at least the account deletion was federated so that my user page was no longer browsable from other instances, but none of my posts, comments or images had been deleted, not even on the home instance.
The homie @[email protected] helped me by manually deleting my stuff, but it seems like that has only worked for the home instance, posts and comments seem to still be readable from other instances (except for some of the images that MrKaplan manually deleted too, but that was only possible up to a date not too far in the past because lemmy used to not associate user uploads with the accounts). So my old posts from the world account can be viewed just fine from other instances:
For other instances that are more up to date the process is even worse imo, while locally things seem to get deleted, federation does not seem to happen at all. For example you can still browse my deleted slrpnk or lemmee accounts from other instances just fine:
https://slrpnk.net/u/[email protected]
https://lemm.ee/u/[email protected]
Account deletion in piefed works kinda like the old lemmy system (as on lemmy.world), and nothing gets deleted except the user page (which also seems to get federated), the posts and comments stay up.
Thought this would be interesting to some, if i had known what a mess this would be (obviously expected some federation issues, just not like that), i would have manually deleted everything. I deleted all these accounts in December, maybe this has been addressed somehow in the meantime, personally i'd have trust issues in this process.
That's why Lemmy is such a GDPR nightmare
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So if someone is worried they've compromised their identity you'd want them to have to manually sift through potentially thousands of posts and comments?
Don't post identifying shit in the first place if you don't want it up. Learn how search functions work if you don't wanna manually shift through shit.
Like I said: loss of information because people are whiny babies about this shit is a bigger deal to me than someone removing information nobody else actually gives a shit about
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Don't post identifying shit in the first place if you don't want it up. Learn how search functions work if you don't wanna manually shift through shit.
Like I said: loss of information because people are whiny babies about this shit is a bigger deal to me than someone removing information nobody else actually gives a shit about
Don't post identifying shit in the first place if you don't want it up. Learn how search functions work if you don't wanna manually shift through shit.
Like I said: loss of information because people are whiny babies about this shit is a bigger deal to me than someone removing information nobody else actually gives a shit about
Just quoting this for posterity because it's such an asinine and victim blaming way of thinking. Enjoy the block. Nothing of value is lost.
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If at some point you want to delete your account and have your posts and comments be gone, you better delete it all manually before you actually delete the account, because that deletion process does not really work as advertised.
For my main account on world (which runs an outdated lemmy version), it seemed like at least the account deletion was federated so that my user page was no longer browsable from other instances, but none of my posts, comments or images had been deleted, not even on the home instance.
The homie @[email protected] helped me by manually deleting my stuff, but it seems like that has only worked for the home instance, posts and comments seem to still be readable from other instances (except for some of the images that MrKaplan manually deleted too, but that was only possible up to a date not too far in the past because lemmy used to not associate user uploads with the accounts). So my old posts from the world account can be viewed just fine from other instances:
For other instances that are more up to date the process is even worse imo, while locally things seem to get deleted, federation does not seem to happen at all. For example you can still browse my deleted slrpnk or lemmee accounts from other instances just fine:
https://slrpnk.net/u/[email protected]
https://lemm.ee/u/[email protected]
Account deletion in piefed works kinda like the old lemmy system (as on lemmy.world), and nothing gets deleted except the user page (which also seems to get federated), the posts and comments stay up.
Thought this would be interesting to some, if i had known what a mess this would be (obviously expected some federation issues, just not like that), i would have manually deleted everything. I deleted all these accounts in December, maybe this has been addressed somehow in the meantime, personally i'd have trust issues in this process.
When deleting the account did you mark the checkbox "Delete all posts, comments and uploaded images"? Lemmy.world is running an old version so its possible that this is missing. Without that it is expected that only the profile gets deleted, while content is still available.
As for federated account deletion this is implemented and covered by test cases and should work in theory. However it is always possible that there is a bug. It would be helpful if you could open an issue with exact steps to reproduce. Use enterprise.lemmy.ml and ds9.lemmy.ml to test the latest version.
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When deleting the account did you mark the checkbox "Delete all posts, comments and uploaded images"? Lemmy.world is running an old version so its possible that this is missing. Without that it is expected that only the profile gets deleted, while content is still available.
As for federated account deletion this is implemented and covered by test cases and should work in theory. However it is always possible that there is a bug. It would be helpful if you could open an issue with exact steps to reproduce. Use enterprise.lemmy.ml and ds9.lemmy.ml to test the latest version.
I get that world should be an outlier. World does not have the checkbox, it just says "esto eliminará permanentamente todos sus datos de esta instancia"
Thought that would include posts etc, but if i understood that right, it was working as intended.As for the other instances, i did use the checkbox and the accounts etc are gone from the home instance but not anywhere else - at least that is true for the slrpnk account on all the instances that i checked.
Now i'm surprised to find my lemm.ee account is actually gone from lemmy.ml and db0. But it is not from world, slrpnk.net, lemmy.ca, sopuli, blahaj, feddit.org, jlai.lu, discuss.online, infosec.pub, programming.dev, lemmy.nz, but at least something seems to have been federated with this deletion.
I deleted those accounts in late December.
I deleted a newly created account on jlaiu.lu two days ago, they're running 0.19.5 but i think they have the checkbox (which i have then ticked) and my comment and profile deletion has federated nicely over the instances that i checked.
I would not know how to reproduce all this. I just deleted my accounts and checked the checkbox if it was available.
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I get that world should be an outlier. World does not have the checkbox, it just says "esto eliminará permanentamente todos sus datos de esta instancia"
Thought that would include posts etc, but if i understood that right, it was working as intended.As for the other instances, i did use the checkbox and the accounts etc are gone from the home instance but not anywhere else - at least that is true for the slrpnk account on all the instances that i checked.
Now i'm surprised to find my lemm.ee account is actually gone from lemmy.ml and db0. But it is not from world, slrpnk.net, lemmy.ca, sopuli, blahaj, feddit.org, jlai.lu, discuss.online, infosec.pub, programming.dev, lemmy.nz, but at least something seems to have been federated with this deletion.
I deleted those accounts in late December.
I deleted a newly created account on jlaiu.lu two days ago, they're running 0.19.5 but i think they have the checkbox (which i have then ticked) and my comment and profile deletion has federated nicely over the instances that i checked.
I would not know how to reproduce all this. I just deleted my accounts and checked the checkbox if it was available.
Originally account deletion would always delete your posts, comments and everything. This was changed in 0.19 to make the content deletion optional (otherwise a lot of posts and comments would disappear unnecessarily). Unfortunately we forgot to add the new option to the user interface for 0.19, but it was added probably around 0.19.4.
Its hard to say why the federation didnt work properly, maybe there was a network error, or a bug in older Lemmy versions that got fixed in the meantime. Or there is still a bug which only happens in some cases.
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Oooo is this automatic process something that's easy to replicate?
It's a Rust program I wrote that runs on my Lemmy server, but in theory it should work with any Lemmy server.
I've thrown the code and a compiled version of the binaries on Github if you're interested: source / binary downloads
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It's a Rust program I wrote that runs on my Lemmy server, but in theory it should work with any Lemmy server.
I've thrown the code and a compiled version of the binaries on Github if you're interested: source / binary downloads
Very cool. Thanks for sharing!
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Yes.
Op isn't expecting an all or nothing. I'm suggesting they should expect nothing. All isn't even worth talking about.And yes.
I've never deleted anything online. Never had a reason to. If I ever imagined a reason I'd want to delete something, I wouldn't post it to begin with. Because I know I can't delete it. See how that works. So what if I was wrong, or embarrassing, that's part of being human, own you're mistakes and move on. Don't hide them. They are who you were. They are how you got where you are. They're responsible for who you've become. Take pride in the failings of your past.OP is expecting the deletion of posts and comments to federate in the same ways posting them would. I don't think they're necessarily going scorched earth and care about someone quoting their comment in a reply or resharing a photo.
I think that's a bit grandiose of a stance. If I misread what someone said or realized someone already said what I did I don't think deleting it leads to any kind of growth.
That's setting aside how draining it can be to reply to several people who are making the same argument about how you are wrong. If I couldn't delete what I posted at that point I would just be creating a slew of edits to justify myself like people regularly do on Reddit whenever they get downvoted.
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If at some point you want to delete your account and have your posts and comments be gone, you better delete it all manually before you actually delete the account, because that deletion process does not really work as advertised.
For my main account on world (which runs an outdated lemmy version), it seemed like at least the account deletion was federated so that my user page was no longer browsable from other instances, but none of my posts, comments or images had been deleted, not even on the home instance.
The homie @[email protected] helped me by manually deleting my stuff, but it seems like that has only worked for the home instance, posts and comments seem to still be readable from other instances (except for some of the images that MrKaplan manually deleted too, but that was only possible up to a date not too far in the past because lemmy used to not associate user uploads with the accounts). So my old posts from the world account can be viewed just fine from other instances:
For other instances that are more up to date the process is even worse imo, while locally things seem to get deleted, federation does not seem to happen at all. For example you can still browse my deleted slrpnk or lemmee accounts from other instances just fine:
https://slrpnk.net/u/[email protected]
https://lemm.ee/u/[email protected]
Account deletion in piefed works kinda like the old lemmy system (as on lemmy.world), and nothing gets deleted except the user page (which also seems to get federated), the posts and comments stay up.
Thought this would be interesting to some, if i had known what a mess this would be (obviously expected some federation issues, just not like that), i would have manually deleted everything. I deleted all these accounts in December, maybe this has been addressed somehow in the meantime, personally i'd have trust issues in this process.
The way federation works, I would not ever rely on deleting things to actually work 100%.
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It takes time to send the request out to everywhere that might have duplicated it.
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The request may never be received.
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Instances can ignore deletion requests even if they do get them.
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Archival bots and even users can save it if they saw it and do not get any deletion requests.
Best practice anywhere on the internet is to simply not post anything you don't expect to stay online forever.
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Maybe reread what i wrote and think about why i may find your dunk on world misplaced. That i was defensive about any lw criticism is just not true either.
And yeah, your crusade against world (actually all the instance beefing, you can find examples of me being defensive of criticism of .ml too in my not-deleted accounts) was also part of why i lost hope in the lemmy project. And i did not agree that you create fake traffic in other communities to ask the world mods to shut down their communities, because yours now has more traffic (although it was basically all produced all by you). I thought that was dumb as hell, but you do you. I was more interested in actual communities interested in topics, not instance beef.
He wasn't dunking on LW. Its a pretty common critisism.
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