China is Systematically Dismantling Tibetan Monastic Traditions
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Wtf do you know about those practices?!
For instance that children are send there against their will.
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Can you be more specific? I've heard some people say that any amount of religion/spirituality at all is inherently harmful and that's a little bit unreasonable.
Admittedly, I don't have any knowledge here because this isn't an issue I've read about before, but the article says people under 18 aren't allowed to join anymore, so the extent to which monastic life is regulated seems excessive and the mandatory state approval of religious leaders seems strange.
How would you like to be taken as a 4 year old child to grow up in a monastery?
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For instance that children are send there against their will.
Last time I checked, many children were sent to schools against their wills.
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So that's how they're euphemizing ethnic genocide these days, huh?
Wonder what China is doing to prevent indoctrination of children with radical partisan CCP loyalism.
Religious superstition is not culture worth preserving.
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Last time I checked, many children were sent to schools against their wills.
To live there the rest of their lives in celibacy?
That's a false equivalence.
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More like China acting like a colonizer to kill the culture.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Superstition and kidnapping of children is not "culture".
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Religious superstition is not culture worth preserving.
China's artificial "culture" which was installed after slaughtering their own history, isn't worth preserving.
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Religious superstition is not culture worth preserving.
Well that's just objectively false. Like it or not, religion is a hugely significant part of history, and it's incredibly important for contextualization.
Besides, in the modern era, if it's not hurting anyone, why do you care? Let them alone to do their thing in peace.
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China's artificial "culture" which was installed after slaughtering their own history, isn't worth preserving.
Finally someone that acknowledge that a harmful culture is not necessarily always worth preserving.
I sure hope China will become more politically democratic, but we must also acknowledge that China has made huge progress in improving conditions for their population these past 50 years. But I think the time for Communism has passed, or whatever it is they have in China.
On the other hand I don't see the 1 party system as that much worse than a 2 party system. To make a real difference, it needs to be a functional democracy.
But the 1 single advantage China has over most democracies, is to NOT accept religious special pleading. -
They support the Han ethnostate
One China and all. Oh other people exist? Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee one China!
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To live there the rest of their lives in celibacy?
That's a false equivalence.
Adults choose to live there by their own will, no one is forcing them to.
The only party force people against their will is CCP forcing young and adult monks leave temples, and force children to live in Han-speaking schools full time without their parents.
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Well that's just objectively false. Like it or not, religion is a hugely significant part of history, and it's incredibly important for contextualization.
Besides, in the modern era, if it's not hurting anyone, why do you care? Let them alone to do their thing in peace.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Superstition is also a large part of Steve Jobs history, it's what killed him.
So would he have been better off if he had not been superstitious?
Exercising religious superstition is not culture, it's stupidity that harm both society and the individual.Stupidity is a significant part of our history, that doesn't mean we should preserve stupidity.
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Finally someone that acknowledge that a harmful culture is not necessarily always worth preserving.
I sure hope China will become more politically democratic, but we must also acknowledge that China has made huge progress in improving conditions for their population these past 50 years. But I think the time for Communism has passed, or whatever it is they have in China.
On the other hand I don't see the 1 party system as that much worse than a 2 party system. To make a real difference, it needs to be a functional democracy.
But the 1 single advantage China has over most democracies, is to NOT accept religious special pleading.wrote on last edited by [email protected]Professing to the belief that slaughtering massive numbers of infant girls is an improvement of conditions, is a bit of a spicy take on these forums.
You can't do something that fucked up and just expect the entire world to pretend it never happened.
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Adults choose to live there by their own will, no one is forcing them to.
The only party force people against their will is CCP forcing young and adult monks leave temples, and force children to live in Han-speaking schools full time without their parents.
Adults that have been brainwashed since childhood do not decide for themselves. They do what they are conditioned to do, just like you are doing right now.
Yes the CCP does that too, I never said I like the CCP, but on religion they are mostly right. Just because it's a bad system, it doesn't mean they are always wrong. There are probably also good religious people. -
Professing to the belief that slaughtering massive numbers of infant girls is an improvement of conditions, is a bit of a spicy take on these forums.
You can't do something that fucked up and just expect the entire world to pretend it never happened.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Now you are being stupid: What slaughtering is that?
The systematic control and surveillance of Tibetan monasteries by Chinese authorities represents one of the most calculated assaults on religious freedom in the modern world.
This is what it is about, and religious special pleading needs to fucking end. Especially when it's harmful to children. You can abandon a religion, it's not like for instance protection of nationality, gender or sex.
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Superstition is also a large part of Steve Jobs history, it's what killed him.
So would he have been better off if he had not been superstitious?
Exercising religious superstition is not culture, it's stupidity that harm both society and the individual.Stupidity is a significant part of our history, that doesn't mean we should preserve stupidity.
Would that be worth taking away his autonomy and will without consent?
Make all the misguided excuses you want for what China is doing. It won't make it right. It was wrong when the United States did it to my family. And it is wrong when China is doing it now.
If China wants to help them. Then offer them opportunity and choice. If the opportunities and choice are better. Their culture will adapt and change to it. Forcing eradication of their culture through violence will only breed resentment and grievance.
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Would that be worth taking away his autonomy and will without consent?
Make all the misguided excuses you want for what China is doing. It won't make it right. It was wrong when the United States did it to my family. And it is wrong when China is doing it now.
If China wants to help them. Then offer them opportunity and choice. If the opportunities and choice are better. Their culture will adapt and change to it. Forcing eradication of their culture through violence will only breed resentment and grievance.
Would that be worth taking away his autonomy and will without consent?
Wow congratulations, first real argument in any response I've received until now.
But they are not really taking away his autonomy by closing the monastery, they are only putting an end to a harmful practice that is illegal.
Now the part about harmful may be a matter of opinion. But personally I believe religious practices are mostly harmful. -
How would you like to be taken as a 4 year old child to grow up in a monastery?
So you have less of an idea about the subject than gonzo, who at least admits not knowing anything. Marvellous tankie specimen.
PS: The CCP sucks donkey dick.
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How would you like to be taken as a 4 year old child to grow up in a monastery?
That would depend on how I was treated; I asked for specifics on how children in monasteries are abused, but you didn't provide any, so I can't really pass judgement on that other than to say that I am against child abuse.
Are kids still being sent to monasteries? The article says it's illegal now. Of course, this doesn't negate any damage caused in the past, but it's now a crime.
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Would that be worth taking away his autonomy and will without consent?
Wow congratulations, first real argument in any response I've received until now.
But they are not really taking away his autonomy by closing the monastery, they are only putting an end to a harmful practice that is illegal.
Now the part about harmful may be a matter of opinion. But personally I believe religious practices are mostly harmful.How is that not taking away autonomy? That's kind of literally the definition of. They aren't appealing for them to close the monastery on their own. They are forcing it.
You and I can both state plainly that the practices are harmful. And even justify the assertion. We would never subject ourselves to it by choice. But that's the thing it has to be a choice. Give them other choices other opportunities. That is absolutely fine.
But the moment you enact your beliefs upon others through violence. It doesn't matter if you are factually correct. You are no longer the "good guy". You've lost the argument. If you cannot make the case for it on merits alone.
There is a very good reason concepts of imperialism and colonization are frowned upon these days. Why you don't see many groups talking about going out and civilizing savages. These are the so-called "good intentions" that the proverbial road to Hell is paved with. The same sort of justification that they used to separate my grandmother from her family. And sent her to special schools. The kind that in many places often ended up with mass Graves of children.
