Windows doesn't "just work"
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In my experience, a stable beginner friendly distro such as mint, is 10x closer to "just working" but...
I do think that the windos DE tends to be more reliable than any linux DE I have tested. The only DE that compares is gnome, which I find very very stable (but I hate it)
I think that non-technical people are just used to a simple playbook of:
- GUI is rarely the issue, so you never need to see the terminal.
- If there is an issue, restart
- If that didn't work, ask for help from your local techy
And for linux step 3 usually doesn't work because your local techy is probably someone who just knows how to google and paste into cmd.
I think problems that could be solved are generic hardware compatibility. Being able to install Wi-Fi adapters and Digital Tokens easily on Linux would go a long way. I think it will get there, though.
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I've been using Linux exclusively for about 8 years. Recently I got frustrated with a bunch of issues that popped one after another. I had a spare SSD so I decided to check out Windows again. I've installed Windows 11 LTSC. It was a nightmare. After all the years on Linux, I forgot how terrible Windows actually is.
On the day I installed the system and a bunch of basic software, I had two bluescreens. I wasn't even doing anything at that time, just going through basic settings and software installation. Okay, it happens. So I installed Steam and tried to play a game I've been currently playing on Linux just to see the performance difference. And it was... worse, for some reason. The "autodetect" in game changed my settings from Ultra to High. On Linux, the game was running at the 75 fps cap all the time. Windows kept dropping them to around 67-ish a lot of times. But the weirdest part was actual power consumption and the way GPU worked. Both systems kept the GPU temperature at around 50C. But the fans were running at 100% speed at that temperature on Windows, while Linux kept them pretty quiet. I had to change the fan controls by myself on Windows just because it was so annoying. The power consumption difference was even harder to explain, as I was getting 190-210W under Linux and under Windows I got 220-250W. And mind you, under Linux I had not only higher graphical settings set up, but was also getting better performance.
I tried connecting my bluetooth earbuds to my PC. Alright, the setup itself was fine. But then the problems started. My earbuds support opus codec for audio. Do you think I can change the bluetooth codec easily, just like on Linux? Nope. There is no way to do it without some third party programs. And don't even get me started on Windows randomly changing my default audio output and trying to play sound through my controller.
Today I decided to make this rant-post after yet another game crashed on me twice under Windows. I bought Watch Dogs since it's currently really cheap on Steam. I click play. I get the loading screen. The game crashed. I try again. I play through the basic "tutorial". After going out of the building, game crashed again. I'm going to play again, this time under Linux.
I've had my share of frustrations under Linux, but that experience made me realise that Windows is not a perfect solution either. Spending a lot of time with Linux and it's bugs made me forget all the bad experience in the past with Windows, and I was craving to go back to the "just works" solution. But it's not "just works". Two days was all it took for me to realize that I'll actually stick with Linux, probably forever. The spare SSD went back to my drawer, maybe so I can try something new in the future. It's so good to be back after a short trip to the other side!
I think Windows is successful because it creates a nice Enterprise environment, where companies can easily get into investing into new apps to use in their offices. I think that's why it's successful.
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Windows sure is bad, though I haven't seen an actual blue-screen in years. That's some foul luck.
You just get forced update while you're in the middle of work and random settings resets.
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Relax, mate. I’m not trying to take away your Windows Server. Just talking about how bad windows is from end user perspective.. absolute rubbish, barely usable, nearly impossible to troubleshoot.
I’m glad you get along with it from your IT professional/server admin role.
I get what you are saying, and Windows is absolutely frustrating at times but so is Linux and especially MacOS.
I'm no developer but I do really get that Windows isn't the best suited OS for some development work, but calling it barely usable in general is just ridiculous.
It's certainly not impossible to troubleshoot either. You just need to learn it, like how you have to learn any OS.
I won't argue that it isn't rubbish, that's fair enough. There is a lot of bullshit with Windows and Microsoft
The main reason Linux clients are largly missing in most IT environments is that managing it on a scale comparable to Windows clients is hard. Afaik there isn't a great way to push out configuration, policies, certificates. And making it all be seamless.
Unmanaged windows clients might be quite bad, but together with stuff like active directory it just works really well for authentication and is part of a good ecosystem that in general just works. The various admin tools for Active Directory are quite annoying to use since they haven't been developed in years and are missing obvious features. Fortunately you can just use Powershell.
I really really wish Linux were better in these enterprise aspects, I wish we could pivot more to Linux for all users or at least for those that don't need specialized software like CAD. There is a large possibility that the majority of our users would riot if we did that though.
For the record I personally like Linux a lot and would absolutely run exclusively Linux if windows wasn't my work. I will probably get my home pc on Linux someday, but I haven't yet because it's simply just so much easier for me to fix Windows when it breaks compared to fixing Linux which always turns into a huge rabbit hole for me. It's also just in general annoying to switch OS since I have TBs of data on it.
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Overall, I'm happy with Linux for everything. But it is a hard sell for your average person when you have to change the init configurations for every single game you download (even if it's just for enabling gamemode).
Also I'm am very curious as to how you even got a bluescreen. I don't even remember when I last saw one.
Also I’m am very curious as to how you even got a bluescreen. I don’t even remember when I last saw one.
That's the thing - I wasn't really doing anything. I had my web browser open, had steam running in the background. I moved my mouse around and then got jumpscared with a blue screen saying "unexpected store exception". I even managed to catch the blue screen on camera and send it to my friend to make that "windows just works" joke.
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Not talking about viruses despite the vaccine comparison.
Software has vulnerabilities, even on NixOS.
Sure, all software has vulnerabilities, I just don't think people will bother to exploit my particular software combination since it's rare
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Sure, all software has vulnerabilities, I just don't think people will bother to exploit my particular software combination since it's rare
NixOS is not special there. It runs the same software as any other Linux distro.
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It isn't about laziness it's about principles.
I simply won't argue with someone that refuses to provide their sources.
Doesn't matter if they say something dubious about Windows, say that vaccines cause autism, or that the earth is flat.You seem to have mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about a random, lazy Internet stranger. If you're too damn lazy to look something up that has been well documented for many years that's your problem, not mine.
I won't "argue" with you about anything, nor will I provide you sources that show thunder isn't caused by Thor's hammer, the moon causes tides, or that Ivermectin doesn't cure Covid,
Enjoy your principled ignorance, you've earned it.
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I think problems that could be solved are generic hardware compatibility. Being able to install Wi-Fi adapters and Digital Tokens easily on Linux would go a long way. I think it will get there, though.
Wifi works great on every distro I tried
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I've been using Linux exclusively for about 8 years. Recently I got frustrated with a bunch of issues that popped one after another. I had a spare SSD so I decided to check out Windows again. I've installed Windows 11 LTSC. It was a nightmare. After all the years on Linux, I forgot how terrible Windows actually is.
On the day I installed the system and a bunch of basic software, I had two bluescreens. I wasn't even doing anything at that time, just going through basic settings and software installation. Okay, it happens. So I installed Steam and tried to play a game I've been currently playing on Linux just to see the performance difference. And it was... worse, for some reason. The "autodetect" in game changed my settings from Ultra to High. On Linux, the game was running at the 75 fps cap all the time. Windows kept dropping them to around 67-ish a lot of times. But the weirdest part was actual power consumption and the way GPU worked. Both systems kept the GPU temperature at around 50C. But the fans were running at 100% speed at that temperature on Windows, while Linux kept them pretty quiet. I had to change the fan controls by myself on Windows just because it was so annoying. The power consumption difference was even harder to explain, as I was getting 190-210W under Linux and under Windows I got 220-250W. And mind you, under Linux I had not only higher graphical settings set up, but was also getting better performance.
I tried connecting my bluetooth earbuds to my PC. Alright, the setup itself was fine. But then the problems started. My earbuds support opus codec for audio. Do you think I can change the bluetooth codec easily, just like on Linux? Nope. There is no way to do it without some third party programs. And don't even get me started on Windows randomly changing my default audio output and trying to play sound through my controller.
Today I decided to make this rant-post after yet another game crashed on me twice under Windows. I bought Watch Dogs since it's currently really cheap on Steam. I click play. I get the loading screen. The game crashed. I try again. I play through the basic "tutorial". After going out of the building, game crashed again. I'm going to play again, this time under Linux.
I've had my share of frustrations under Linux, but that experience made me realise that Windows is not a perfect solution either. Spending a lot of time with Linux and it's bugs made me forget all the bad experience in the past with Windows, and I was craving to go back to the "just works" solution. But it's not "just works". Two days was all it took for me to realize that I'll actually stick with Linux, probably forever. The spare SSD went back to my drawer, maybe so I can try something new in the future. It's so good to be back after a short trip to the other side!
i almost forget how much it sucks whenever i'm not forced to use it for a while.
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Wifi works great on every distro I tried
With a Wi-Fi adapter on Desktop?
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With a Wi-Fi adapter on Desktop?
Yes, on these distros that i remember: arch, fedora and mint
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I've been using Linux exclusively for about 8 years. Recently I got frustrated with a bunch of issues that popped one after another. I had a spare SSD so I decided to check out Windows again. I've installed Windows 11 LTSC. It was a nightmare. After all the years on Linux, I forgot how terrible Windows actually is.
On the day I installed the system and a bunch of basic software, I had two bluescreens. I wasn't even doing anything at that time, just going through basic settings and software installation. Okay, it happens. So I installed Steam and tried to play a game I've been currently playing on Linux just to see the performance difference. And it was... worse, for some reason. The "autodetect" in game changed my settings from Ultra to High. On Linux, the game was running at the 75 fps cap all the time. Windows kept dropping them to around 67-ish a lot of times. But the weirdest part was actual power consumption and the way GPU worked. Both systems kept the GPU temperature at around 50C. But the fans were running at 100% speed at that temperature on Windows, while Linux kept them pretty quiet. I had to change the fan controls by myself on Windows just because it was so annoying. The power consumption difference was even harder to explain, as I was getting 190-210W under Linux and under Windows I got 220-250W. And mind you, under Linux I had not only higher graphical settings set up, but was also getting better performance.
I tried connecting my bluetooth earbuds to my PC. Alright, the setup itself was fine. But then the problems started. My earbuds support opus codec for audio. Do you think I can change the bluetooth codec easily, just like on Linux? Nope. There is no way to do it without some third party programs. And don't even get me started on Windows randomly changing my default audio output and trying to play sound through my controller.
Today I decided to make this rant-post after yet another game crashed on me twice under Windows. I bought Watch Dogs since it's currently really cheap on Steam. I click play. I get the loading screen. The game crashed. I try again. I play through the basic "tutorial". After going out of the building, game crashed again. I'm going to play again, this time under Linux.
I've had my share of frustrations under Linux, but that experience made me realise that Windows is not a perfect solution either. Spending a lot of time with Linux and it's bugs made me forget all the bad experience in the past with Windows, and I was craving to go back to the "just works" solution. But it's not "just works". Two days was all it took for me to realize that I'll actually stick with Linux, probably forever. The spare SSD went back to my drawer, maybe so I can try something new in the future. It's so good to be back after a short trip to the other side!
The problem with Windows is that it is not build to be parametrised. Anyone a bit tech-savy will be frustrated by the inability to tune it effectively for its need.
The problem with Linux is that it is not tech-normie friendly. Sure it has distribution easy to use and pre-parametrised so anyone with basic computer skill can use it. But people with basic computer skill don't have computers with Linux. Anyone who just want to use a computer has to first learn how to install an OS. -
Overall, I'm happy with Linux for everything. But it is a hard sell for your average person when you have to change the init configurations for every single game you download (even if it's just for enabling gamemode).
Also I'm am very curious as to how you even got a bluescreen. I don't even remember when I last saw one.
you have to change the init configurations for every single game you download (even if it’s just for enabling gamemode)
I haven't had to do this for a single game I've played. Am I lucky? What does "gamemode" do? (Am I missing out on something?)
The worst I've had to do to get a game to work was change to "Proton Experimental" in the compat settings for one game that had basically just launched. (I also remember the EA launcher being terrible when I played "It Takes Two" with my partner, but I don't remember what was terrible about it and also remember them having problems on Windows so I don't know if it should count or not, lol). My partner is still using Windows, and we game together a lot, and honestly I think they have games crash far more often than I do. Games take longer to launch for me though - "Processing Vulkan Shaders" takes up to a minute or two if it is the first launch since boot of a larger game. No idea what happens if I skip it, so I don't.
It's honestly been such a breath of fresh air, I am so grateful for the talented people making this shit work so well, especially in the last several years.
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My exact experience too. Fedora "just works". I especially like the immutable varieties for even more "just works (and continues to just works)-iness"
I've had an issue where nvidia drivers stopped working. For half a day while the update was rolling in. Thankfully linux has super easy rollback feature that automagically activates when you force restart using the power button.
Seriously, ever since I went to "shitty, always broken tinkerers toy not a real os for real people" linux, I have not had to use the switch on my psu. Seems it's literally only there for windows.
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Put it in a VM?
That still doesn’t solve 99.9% of my issues, it just tries to solve something I already have a solution for: a KVM.
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The problem with Windows is that it is not build to be parametrised. Anyone a bit tech-savy will be frustrated by the inability to tune it effectively for its need.
The problem with Linux is that it is not tech-normie friendly. Sure it has distribution easy to use and pre-parametrised so anyone with basic computer skill can use it. But people with basic computer skill don't have computers with Linux. Anyone who just want to use a computer has to first learn how to install an OS.The problem with Linux is that it is not tech-normie friendly.
That probably was true 15 years ago. That is absolutely not true now. This misconception stems from the fact that most tech normies have a lot of experience with Windows through job, so people assume Windows is friendly, but in reality they just know how it works.
Learning how to use Linux is dead easy. It's not popular because it's not pre installed, as you said, but it's not because the OS is bad, it's because Linux doesn't have multibillion corporation behind it to make sure its everywhere. -
The problem with Linux is that it is not tech-normie friendly.
That probably was true 15 years ago. That is absolutely not true now. This misconception stems from the fact that most tech normies have a lot of experience with Windows through job, so people assume Windows is friendly, but in reality they just know how it works.
Learning how to use Linux is dead easy. It's not popular because it's not pre installed, as you said, but it's not because the OS is bad, it's because Linux doesn't have multibillion corporation behind it to make sure its everywhere.You should have the end of my comment with more attention. That's not my point you counter here.
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I've been using Linux exclusively for about 8 years. Recently I got frustrated with a bunch of issues that popped one after another. I had a spare SSD so I decided to check out Windows again. I've installed Windows 11 LTSC. It was a nightmare. After all the years on Linux, I forgot how terrible Windows actually is.
On the day I installed the system and a bunch of basic software, I had two bluescreens. I wasn't even doing anything at that time, just going through basic settings and software installation. Okay, it happens. So I installed Steam and tried to play a game I've been currently playing on Linux just to see the performance difference. And it was... worse, for some reason. The "autodetect" in game changed my settings from Ultra to High. On Linux, the game was running at the 75 fps cap all the time. Windows kept dropping them to around 67-ish a lot of times. But the weirdest part was actual power consumption and the way GPU worked. Both systems kept the GPU temperature at around 50C. But the fans were running at 100% speed at that temperature on Windows, while Linux kept them pretty quiet. I had to change the fan controls by myself on Windows just because it was so annoying. The power consumption difference was even harder to explain, as I was getting 190-210W under Linux and under Windows I got 220-250W. And mind you, under Linux I had not only higher graphical settings set up, but was also getting better performance.
I tried connecting my bluetooth earbuds to my PC. Alright, the setup itself was fine. But then the problems started. My earbuds support opus codec for audio. Do you think I can change the bluetooth codec easily, just like on Linux? Nope. There is no way to do it without some third party programs. And don't even get me started on Windows randomly changing my default audio output and trying to play sound through my controller.
Today I decided to make this rant-post after yet another game crashed on me twice under Windows. I bought Watch Dogs since it's currently really cheap on Steam. I click play. I get the loading screen. The game crashed. I try again. I play through the basic "tutorial". After going out of the building, game crashed again. I'm going to play again, this time under Linux.
I've had my share of frustrations under Linux, but that experience made me realise that Windows is not a perfect solution either. Spending a lot of time with Linux and it's bugs made me forget all the bad experience in the past with Windows, and I was craving to go back to the "just works" solution. But it's not "just works". Two days was all it took for me to realize that I'll actually stick with Linux, probably forever. The spare SSD went back to my drawer, maybe so I can try something new in the future. It's so good to be back after a short trip to the other side!
Bluetooth is so bad on Windows. You cannot simply "reconnect" a headset
You have to unpair and pair each time you want to use it.
This was with Intel Bluetooth too which works extremely well, under Linux and Macos.
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I've been using Linux exclusively for about 8 years. Recently I got frustrated with a bunch of issues that popped one after another. I had a spare SSD so I decided to check out Windows again. I've installed Windows 11 LTSC. It was a nightmare. After all the years on Linux, I forgot how terrible Windows actually is.
On the day I installed the system and a bunch of basic software, I had two bluescreens. I wasn't even doing anything at that time, just going through basic settings and software installation. Okay, it happens. So I installed Steam and tried to play a game I've been currently playing on Linux just to see the performance difference. And it was... worse, for some reason. The "autodetect" in game changed my settings from Ultra to High. On Linux, the game was running at the 75 fps cap all the time. Windows kept dropping them to around 67-ish a lot of times. But the weirdest part was actual power consumption and the way GPU worked. Both systems kept the GPU temperature at around 50C. But the fans were running at 100% speed at that temperature on Windows, while Linux kept them pretty quiet. I had to change the fan controls by myself on Windows just because it was so annoying. The power consumption difference was even harder to explain, as I was getting 190-210W under Linux and under Windows I got 220-250W. And mind you, under Linux I had not only higher graphical settings set up, but was also getting better performance.
I tried connecting my bluetooth earbuds to my PC. Alright, the setup itself was fine. But then the problems started. My earbuds support opus codec for audio. Do you think I can change the bluetooth codec easily, just like on Linux? Nope. There is no way to do it without some third party programs. And don't even get me started on Windows randomly changing my default audio output and trying to play sound through my controller.
Today I decided to make this rant-post after yet another game crashed on me twice under Windows. I bought Watch Dogs since it's currently really cheap on Steam. I click play. I get the loading screen. The game crashed. I try again. I play through the basic "tutorial". After going out of the building, game crashed again. I'm going to play again, this time under Linux.
I've had my share of frustrations under Linux, but that experience made me realise that Windows is not a perfect solution either. Spending a lot of time with Linux and it's bugs made me forget all the bad experience in the past with Windows, and I was craving to go back to the "just works" solution. But it's not "just works". Two days was all it took for me to realize that I'll actually stick with Linux, probably forever. The spare SSD went back to my drawer, maybe so I can try something new in the future. It's so good to be back after a short trip to the other side!
For me just works is MacOS, I very rarely have an actual issue unless I am trying to customize something and it won't let me, which isn't an issue, it is the way it is designed.
But I recently started using Fedora XCFE spin, it really feels just as stable as I remember windows being and a lot more flexible than both mac and windows which is the entire point in using it, ethical reasons aside.
Except for compatibility there is no reason I would choose to use Windows for anything really. If I want 100% stable then MacOS is the obvious choice. Otherwise Fedora is running great even tho I had to replace some drivers etc at first, and I am almost at a faster workflow than I had in MacOS after just a few days, so I will probably surpass it soon and make it my daily driver (unless it starts acting up too often, can't afford to spend time troubleshooting).
