New Refrigerators, Washing Machines, Furniture and Tires Will All Have to Last Longer, Europe Mandates
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Longer means more forever chemicals
Not necessarily, you can use more steel, stronger parts. And if forever chemicals become a problem, you can regulate them just like with everything else. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
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I've heard this from service techs who have worked on my refrigerator and dishwasher - major appliances in America last a third as long as they did 10 or 15 years ago.
I can tell you from firsthand experience it's even worse than that. I had a washer that lasted me damn near 20 years that was made in the 90s. Finally decided to get a new set from Samsung. Made it just past warranty, or basically 1 year. The repair would have cost as much as the washer was new. Similar experience with an LG fridge. Bought it and the ice machine broke in it, TWICE, within the first year. Fuck these brands and their established hold on the market.
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The spirit is willing, but the machine is spongy and bruised.
Bullshit. My aunt has a washing machine with all knobs and switches that's probably 30+ years old and it still works fine.
They need to stop putting all these digital components into washing machines or make the boards standardized so they can be easily swapped out. These aren't laptops that you toss after 3-5 years. Appliances should last 10-20 years.
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If demand is so big, of course only housing with the highest margins is developed, which is the luxery market.
BS. There's no market for overpriced accommodation which developers finally understood so they're dialling it down. Took them long enough.
If there would be a surplus to the point that the speculative capital doesn’t find a buyer when selling, prices would be much lower.
It's not about not finding a buyer. It's about finding a buyer that meets their ROI demands, otherwise they're happy to just let properties sit idle. That's the "speculation" part.
Again, the solution is regulation in the form of taxing vacant property. Can't find a tenant, you say? City will be happy to provide you with one, straight off the top of the waiting list for social housing. Not the price range you want to rent for? Well, then you can pay taxes until you think otherwise.
In the end, money is power. If you don't want all the power to end up with whoever happens to have money you gotta stomp people with money at some point or the other. When they whine, tell them they should become better business people, not invest in such stupid schemes as trying to turn a working class neighbourhood into accommodation for billionaires.
This should take cheap Chinese brands off the market that don’t have a support network in Europe.
Turkish, more like, China isn't really in the market here and Beko rules the low end. Still, two years warranty instead of the one year that's the legal minimum.
And honestly, 120 Euro fridges turning into 150 Euros fridges would be a good thing. Building things in a solid way is a different thing than blinging it out: Don't push designers to get rid of the fourth bolt for the attachment plate, don't save fifty cents by buying cheap lubricant, penny pinching is a disease. May increase GDP in the broken window way but who the hell wants that.
That’s the “speculation” part.
A surplus in supply would threaten them with an infinite time to wait for their target ROI.
the solution is regulation in the form of taxing vacant property
fully agree
If you don’t want all the power to end up with whoever happens to have money you gotta stomp people with money at some point or the other
Fiat currency. Public banks can hand out credits to whomever wants to build with a solid calculation.
If you don’t want all the power to end up with whoever happens to have money you gotta stomp people with money at some point or the other
You tax them. Of course only possible if the masses are not manipulated. Drones and AI, stomping would only be possible for something like 5 more years. Afterwards there is not much more power left.
120 Euro fridges turning into 150 Euros fridges
More like 120 Euro fridges leave the market and 150 Euro fridges cost 200 Euros.
Building things in a solid way is a different thing than blinging it out: Don’t push designers to get rid of the fourth bolt for the attachment plate, don’t save fifty cents by buying cheap lubricant
I want to live in a society where people choose the solid products on their own. Everything else calls for trouble down the line.
May increase GDP in the broken window way but who the hell wants that.
I don't undderstand that.
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That’s the “speculation” part.
A surplus in supply would threaten them with an infinite time to wait for their target ROI.
the solution is regulation in the form of taxing vacant property
fully agree
If you don’t want all the power to end up with whoever happens to have money you gotta stomp people with money at some point or the other
Fiat currency. Public banks can hand out credits to whomever wants to build with a solid calculation.
If you don’t want all the power to end up with whoever happens to have money you gotta stomp people with money at some point or the other
You tax them. Of course only possible if the masses are not manipulated. Drones and AI, stomping would only be possible for something like 5 more years. Afterwards there is not much more power left.
120 Euro fridges turning into 150 Euros fridges
More like 120 Euro fridges leave the market and 150 Euro fridges cost 200 Euros.
Building things in a solid way is a different thing than blinging it out: Don’t push designers to get rid of the fourth bolt for the attachment plate, don’t save fifty cents by buying cheap lubricant
I want to live in a society where people choose the solid products on their own. Everything else calls for trouble down the line.
May increase GDP in the broken window way but who the hell wants that.
I don't undderstand that.
A surplus in supply would threaten them with an infinite time to wait for their target ROI.
Dindingding winner winner chicken dinner. That's exactly what's happening. Question still being why such stuff should be allowed in the first place, why should ordinary folks have trouble getting apartments just so that some rich fucks can try to make profit.
Fiat currency. Public banks can hand out credits to whomever wants to build with a solid calculation.
You can't just print money because inflation. That said, yes, public banks are absolutely able and willing and happy to invest in housing projects. It's how e.g. these folks get much of their money. Things get difficult though when there's speculators throwing money around, artificially increasing property, land, and construction prices. Public and cooperative banks are generally happy if your project earns enough rent to finance their fixed-term deposit rates but with inflated costs earning that rate means inflating rents and then you again might be out of people who can afford it.
Side note the mortgages on multiple flat type properties don't tend to get paid down, ever: By the time the mortgage matured it's time to renovate the thing, and you roll it over into a new one. Still the rent prices you can achieve with that are nothing like you see on the open market.
I want to live in a society where people choose the solid products on their own. Everything else calls for trouble down the line.
It is irrational to expect rational behaviour from people.
I don’t undderstand that.
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Longer means more forever chemicals
I'd love to hear how you came to that conclusion.
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Samsung: god damnit, now we have to use the $0.30 washer instead of the $0.29 washer and itll last at least 10 years longer!
That's 10s of millions in extra sales lost!
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Bullshit. My aunt has a washing machine with all knobs and switches that's probably 30+ years old and it still works fine.
They need to stop putting all these digital components into washing machines or make the boards standardized so they can be easily swapped out. These aren't laptops that you toss after 3-5 years. Appliances should last 10-20 years.
Laptops should last longer than 3-5 years too. It should go without saying, but this is the internet.
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A surplus in supply would threaten them with an infinite time to wait for their target ROI.
Dindingding winner winner chicken dinner. That's exactly what's happening. Question still being why such stuff should be allowed in the first place, why should ordinary folks have trouble getting apartments just so that some rich fucks can try to make profit.
Fiat currency. Public banks can hand out credits to whomever wants to build with a solid calculation.
You can't just print money because inflation. That said, yes, public banks are absolutely able and willing and happy to invest in housing projects. It's how e.g. these folks get much of their money. Things get difficult though when there's speculators throwing money around, artificially increasing property, land, and construction prices. Public and cooperative banks are generally happy if your project earns enough rent to finance their fixed-term deposit rates but with inflated costs earning that rate means inflating rents and then you again might be out of people who can afford it.
Side note the mortgages on multiple flat type properties don't tend to get paid down, ever: By the time the mortgage matured it's time to renovate the thing, and you roll it over into a new one. Still the rent prices you can achieve with that are nothing like you see on the open market.
I want to live in a society where people choose the solid products on their own. Everything else calls for trouble down the line.
It is irrational to expect rational behaviour from people.
I don’t undderstand that.
why such stuff should be allowed in the first place,
Because we have a market economy. We can switch to planning, but that has its own disadvantages
why should ordinary folks have trouble getting apartments just so that some rich fucks can try to make profit.
They should not. It's market manipulation that we don't have enough apartments. With different zoning laws or more plots to built, there would be enough apartments.
speculators throwing money around, artificially increasing property, land, and construction prices.
Tax empty housing, or housing in general, and speculation will disappear.
Still the rent prices you can achieve with that are nothing like you see on the open market.
In which way? Why are those apartments not on the open market?
It is irrational to expect rational behaviour from people.
That's also why people shouldn't be forced to be rational. The Sovjet Union was forcing people to be rational but people weren't happy.
Broken window
I tried to make sense with this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theoryNow it's clear.
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I don’t even understand what fascism means in each case on lemmy and whether it is a fixed term or some adaptive catch it all
The definition I find useful is, Fascism is when an imperial power begins applying colonial policies to citizens in its core.
So, for a practical example, the United States has used extra-judicial black sites to disappear and torture people the CIA/pentagon deem enemies for decades. Locking up people in El Salvador without (constitutionally mandatory) trial or legal council is just that policy brought home.
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Longer means more forever chemicals
Not really, it means mechanically working longer not forever.
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My washing machine is around 25 years old. Not giving it up till its absolutely done haha. But since parts are relatively available, it might just be a few more years.
The washing machine, dishwasher and fridge my wife had when we got married were already old and all lasted 20 years more. In the 12 years since the fridge finally gave out we've bought two more of each of those things.
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why such stuff should be allowed in the first place,
Because we have a market economy. We can switch to planning, but that has its own disadvantages
why should ordinary folks have trouble getting apartments just so that some rich fucks can try to make profit.
They should not. It's market manipulation that we don't have enough apartments. With different zoning laws or more plots to built, there would be enough apartments.
speculators throwing money around, artificially increasing property, land, and construction prices.
Tax empty housing, or housing in general, and speculation will disappear.
Still the rent prices you can achieve with that are nothing like you see on the open market.
In which way? Why are those apartments not on the open market?
It is irrational to expect rational behaviour from people.
That's also why people shouldn't be forced to be rational. The Sovjet Union was forcing people to be rational but people weren't happy.
Broken window
I tried to make sense with this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theoryNow it's clear.
Because we have a market economy. We can switch to planning, but that has its own disadvantages
Planned economy is not when there are regulations.
They should not. It’s market manipulation that we don’t have enough apartments.
"Manipulation" implies intent to achieve that state of affairs, and, no, that wasn't the goal of capital. Capital wanted ROI and looked for it in the wrong place.
With different zoning laws or more plots to built, there would be enough apartments.
In the US, yes. Europe by and large doesn't have such inane laws.
In which way? Why are those apartments not on the open market?
The syndicate -- did you read the link I gave you -- specifically works towards removing properties from the market, get all control into the hands of the tenants. Rents pay for the mortgage, that's it, no middleman, and the legal structure ensures that tenants can't band up and cash out like many a cooperative did.
That’s also why people shouldn’t be forced to be rational. The Sovjet Union was forcing people to be rational but people weren’t happy.
The fuck has the USSR to do with anything we're talking about. Also why are you calling tankies rational go to lemmygrad if you like them so much.
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Laptops should last longer than 3-5 years too. It should go without saying, but this is the internet.
Agreed but in most larger businesses swap out the laptops around 3-5 years.
Consumers use laptop 5-10+ until they die.
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Do you even know what forever chemicals are or do you think they're a magic thing that are added to machines to make them last longer?
Companies literally add pfas to everything to make things last longer
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Companies literally add pfas to everything to make things last longer
Ahhh, so you are the type of dumb that heard the name and assumed the wrong interpretation and ran with it. The so-called "forever chemicals" are called that because they themselves don't really break down, but they don't give that property to other things. These "forever chemicals" are stuff like teflon, they're stuff that doesn't react with other things and that makes them nonstick, something that can be useful in a bunch of different things besides just nonstick pans, but because they're so nonstick, it's difficult to make them stay in the pan or whatever industrial machine they're a part of, so they can flake off and be in the end product, in our food, water, soil and much more, and since like I said before they're not reactive, they can just stay there as their molecules, forever. Using them in a machine doesn't give the machine more durability or extends it's work life, it just helps it not stick to stuff
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Agreed but in most larger businesses swap out the laptops around 3-5 years.
Consumers use laptop 5-10+ until they die.
Framework like modular laptop would fix this. Need a new screen? No problem. Need a new processor? No problem.
Upgrade whatever is outdated and just that
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Framework like modular laptop would fix this. Need a new screen? No problem. Need a new processor? No problem.
Upgrade whatever is outdated and just that
Yeah but imagine if we had a laptop motherboard standard like desktops.
Instead of ATX it would be something like MLF - Modular Laptop Framework
Where there would be some board standard for laptop boards.
Then you get screen ribbon standards, keyboard ribbon standards, etc.
This would allow one to order a laptop case with screen, keyboard and touchpad. But you can pick your board, cpu, ram.
I know some companies have done GPU upgrades but how nice would it be to upgrade your 4 year old $3k laptop's GPU?
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As much as I love this, I fail to see how this would be able to be written into law. It's basically gov mandated warranty period. If the goal is to have manufacturers make products that last, how long is long enough? What's to say that they do the same thing and design products that fail right after warranty ends? Who decides if there is foul play in designing faulty products and how? Unless the gov makes their own product that lasts for 20 years and tells every other company to use this as a baseline otherwise get fined, I don't know how they would be able to enforce this.
I just think this is a big gray area and it would be hard to make this cut and clear. The only thing I think they could do for now is to have companies provide repair manuals and provide parts for a set amount of years after product launch, and repairs should be able to be made by customers themselves without needing to go through 1st party verification like Apple does with their phones.
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Did you research spare part availability / reparability scores when buying the new one?
I always start with that when buying major items. Some brands are more consumer friendly than others. I was still able to buy replacement parts for my 2005 fridge and dishwasher in 2019 and 2023 for 13 and 100 euros respectively (the 100 euro was a heat exchanger one of the biggest pieces of the machine). With 6 Euro shipping costs, 2 day delivery. And a bunch of YouTube videos to do the repair.
In 2024 we equipped a whole new house with the same brand, voting with our wallets.
Yes, to the best of my ability and available resources. It is a newer model, so currently spare parts seemed to be abundant vs the 12 or so year old previous model.
Nice work on the cheap repairs! Which brand, if I may ask?
