The vibecoders are becoming sentient
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A buddy of mine is into vibe coding, but he actually does know how to code as well. He will reiterate through the code with the llm until he thinks it will work. I can believe it saves time, but you still have to know what you are doing.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I do the same, I am not sure if it saves time. Some times not. Other times if it is a task I really don’t want to work on this helps me to get started and break through procreation
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The AI Fix podcast had a piece about how someone let an AI agent do the coding for them but had a disaster because he gave it access to the production database.
Very funny.
https://theaifix.show/61-replit-panics-deletes-1m-project-ai-gets-gold-at-math-olympiad/
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Sure, it can be useful for people who do know how to program, though I find it usually takes more effort to get it to create what I want and make sure it works than it takes to just do it myself.
This guy explicitly says he doesn't know how to program though. He says he took an HTML (not a programming language, a markdown language) class a decade ago. He probably doesn't remember shit from it, not that it'd be helpful anyway because writing HTML has nothing to do with writing a program to perform a task.
Does it save a ton of time? No, but it's still helpful, and can get you up and running in a new language much faster than the alternative.
You obviously aren't a programmer. You either know how to program or you don't. The language is just syntax, which is trivial to learn. It doesn't help you get running in a new language because you still need to learn the syntax to make sure it's writing something reasonable. That time has to be spent no matter what.
you obviously aren't a programmer
Don't be a dick, the example is a perfectly reasonable one, and it's something ppl would've used Rosetta code or learnxiny or stack overflow for in the past.
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I just use it to whip up a mockup, like a GUI with certain usability features. I'm the one who has to work with highly specific, proprietary software and usability is total ass. But it's difficult to put this into words that the dev is willing to read through. So I'd rather show it. But that's about it.
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I do the same, I am not sure if it saves time. Some times not. Other times if it is a task I really don’t want to work on this helps me to get started and break through procreation
Lol, work as your coitus interruptus.
I know you meant procrastination btw.
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Vibe coding is useful for super basic bash scripting and that's about it. Even that it will mess up but usually in a suler easily fixed way
I don't think it has much to do with how "complex or not" it is, but rather how common it is.
It can completely fail on very simple things that are just a bit obscure, so it has too little training data.
And it can do very complex things if there's enough training data on those things.
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Nah I'm on that guy's side. His experience lines up with my own, namely that vibe coding is not useful for people who don't know how to program, but it can be useful for people who do know how to program, and simply aren't familiar with the specific syntax used in a language they're not an expert in.
In that case, the queries to the AI model aren't, "write me a program that can do X", it's more like "write me a function in this language that can take A, B, and C as inputs, do operation Y with them, and return Z", or "what's the best way to find all of the unique elements in an array and sort it alphabetically in this language". Then the programmer can take those pieces and build up a proper application with them. The AI isn't actually writing the program for you, it's more like a customized Stack Overflow generator, without having to wade through a decade of people arguing back and forth in the comments about inane bullshit.
Does it save a ton of time? No, but it's still helpful, and can get you up and running in a new language much faster than the alternative.
I'm just using AI to get me the damn standard library function I want to use but can't remember. Way faster than clicking through a couple links of a search result for it.
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Like trying to write a book just using auto complete
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Vibe coding tools are very useful when you want to make a tech movie but the
hollywoodcommand just does not cut it. -
Nah I'm on that guy's side. His experience lines up with my own, namely that vibe coding is not useful for people who don't know how to program, but it can be useful for people who do know how to program, and simply aren't familiar with the specific syntax used in a language they're not an expert in.
In that case, the queries to the AI model aren't, "write me a program that can do X", it's more like "write me a function in this language that can take A, B, and C as inputs, do operation Y with them, and return Z", or "what's the best way to find all of the unique elements in an array and sort it alphabetically in this language". Then the programmer can take those pieces and build up a proper application with them. The AI isn't actually writing the program for you, it's more like a customized Stack Overflow generator, without having to wade through a decade of people arguing back and forth in the comments about inane bullshit.
Does it save a ton of time? No, but it's still helpful, and can get you up and running in a new language much faster than the alternative.
I really like the description of AI coding as 'custom stack overflow generator' because it really sells the flaws as well, to an experienced dev. We go to stack overflow for help with some weird quirk of a language or find an obscure library that solves our specific need.
I think vibe coding is cobbling together a project from a bunch of stack overflow posts -- and they only use the question part of the post.
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Vibe coding is useful for super basic bash scripting and that's about it. Even that it will mess up but usually in a suler easily fixed way
When I want to be lazy and make some simple excel macros is about the most iv trusted it with that it manages to do with out fucking up and taking more time then just doing it my self.
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I don't want to dismiss your point overall, but I see that example so often and it irks me so much.
Unit tests are your specification. So, 1) ideally you should write the specification before you implement the functionality. But also, 2) this is the one part where you really should be putting in your critical thinking to work out what the code needs to be doing.
An AI chatbot or autocomplete can aid you in putting down some of the boilerplate to have the specification automatically checked against the implementation. Or you could try to formulate the specification in plaintext and have an AI translate it into code. But an AI without knowledge of the context nor critical thinking cannot write the specification for you.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Unit tests become the specification once they are written. ChatGPT can easily write unit tests from whatever your specification is before that -- such as documentation, a bunch of comments and stubs, or even a first draft of the function itself, given enough context from the rest of the project.
Unit tests are too klunky to think in. You don't prototype the specification by implementing unit tests. And you really only lay down a few critical paths even if you "write the tests first" because code paths always come up during implementation that demand more test coverage anyway.
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No way. Youtube ad told me a different story the other day. Could that be a... lie?
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God bless vibe coders, because of them I'm buying a new PC build this week AND I've decided to get a PS5.
Thank you Vibe Coders, your laziness and and sheer idiocy are padding my wallet nicely.
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The argument was "AI helps when starting up new projects by making unit tests etc."
Also for not 20, but even building 10 year old libraries using AI is unhelpful. It just keeps hallucinating non-existent packages and functions.
At this point just drive yourself crazy while promising to become goose farmer and commenting every single line in your own words like god intended for programmers to do.
wrote last edited by [email protected]You read "new projects" in, actually. And the whole unit test thing was just an example demonstrating how AI use has to be tightly bounded to be arguably useful.
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A buddy of mine is into vibe coding, but he actually does know how to code as well. He will reiterate through the code with the llm until he thinks it will work. I can believe it saves time, but you still have to know what you are doing.
I don't see how it would save time as someone whose job is to currently undo what "time" it "saves". You can give Claude Code the most fantastic and accurate prompt in the world but you're still going to have to explain to it how something actually works when it gets to the point, and it will, that it starts contradicting itself and over complicating things.
You said yourself he has to reiterate through the code with the LLM to get something that works. If he already knows it, he could just write it. Having to explain to something HOW to write what you ALREADY know can't possibly be saving time. it's Coding with extra steps.
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So there are multiple people in this thread who state their job is to unfuck what the LLMs are doing. I have a family member who graduated in CS a year ago and is having a hell of a time finding work, how would he go about getting one of these "clean up after the model" jobs?
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I watched a bit out of curiosity and even vibe-coding aside, he is annoying as fuck. Couldn't stand him 20 seconds.
That's an issue on its own. He's just a typical streamer. I already had enough from looking at thumbnails.
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Nah I'm on that guy's side. His experience lines up with my own, namely that vibe coding is not useful for people who don't know how to program, but it can be useful for people who do know how to program, and simply aren't familiar with the specific syntax used in a language they're not an expert in.
In that case, the queries to the AI model aren't, "write me a program that can do X", it's more like "write me a function in this language that can take A, B, and C as inputs, do operation Y with them, and return Z", or "what's the best way to find all of the unique elements in an array and sort it alphabetically in this language". Then the programmer can take those pieces and build up a proper application with them. The AI isn't actually writing the program for you, it's more like a customized Stack Overflow generator, without having to wade through a decade of people arguing back and forth in the comments about inane bullshit.
Does it save a ton of time? No, but it's still helpful, and can get you up and running in a new language much faster than the alternative.
wrote last edited by [email protected]My company is doing a big push for LLM/codegen/“everyday ‘AI’”
Sorry - threw up in my mouth a little bit there
And pretty much the only thing I acquiesce to using is the “better autocomplete” feature. Most of the other stuff it seems to offer is essentially useless on a day-to-day basis for me.
And moreover, it’s actively harmful to the entire practice of engineering, because management and execs see it as this magical oracle/panopticon that can magically make people more productive and churn out 10x more bullshit products that they didn’t consult with engineers on than before. It can’t and it doesn’t. But that doesn’t stop them from thinking it can.
And then they stop hiring junior levels because “codegen can do that”. And then you have a generational gap in the entire fucking discipline of coding as an art, because the entire fucking tech industry is doing this. And we haven’t even touched on the ecological and infrastructural (as in: water and power, not “which cloud or bare metal do we put this on”) implications and how they’re being blatantly ignored and hand-waved away, or the comical license and usage violations that are perfectly fine when large companies do but you’ve been a naughty boy if you torrent a fucking movie. But I digress.
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So there are multiple people in this thread who state their job is to unfuck what the LLMs are doing. I have a family member who graduated in CS a year ago and is having a hell of a time finding work, how would he go about getting one of these "clean up after the model" jobs?
Answer is probably the same as before AI: build a portfolio on GitHub. These days maybe try to find repos that have vibe code in them and make commits that fix the AI garbage.
