Do you feel sad for people born today?
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Still an historical low point. Did you not check a single link I posted?
You don't need to google this shit...
NM, you admitted it.
ALL of that has been going on since WWII, and slowly dialing down. The Ukraine war is such a shock because it's so damned unusual.
I didn't say the world was at peace, but war and death is at an all-time low. Look at the casualties reported in the news today. We're stunned if 100 people get killed in a single attack. There were WWI and WWII battles you've never even heard of where 4,000 men were killed at once.
As to my education: I have 2 years of Advanced European History under my belt and 4 college credits to show for it. Not to pull the age card, but at 54 I've lived a fair bit of modern history. I'm guessing you weren't around when global thermonuclear war was hanging over our head as a day-to-day fact of life?
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I personally cringe when I hear a friend js having a kid. All I can think of is how bad theyre going to have it. Hell id definitely have been better off being born 20 years earlier, but these new kids are REALLY screwed unless they have super rich parents.
"Nothing new under the sun" I suppose!
Yes I do. I am an anti-natalist because I care about people.
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All ye who enter abandon all hope
Seriously, you people are a bunch of cake eaters. "The future is scary and things are getting worse." It's always been scary, you've just been privileged enough for it not to be.
All I can think of is how bad theyre going to have it.
Bro, people have it bad NOW. Life is and has always been suffering and struggle. Get out of your online bubble and go see some shit. Anyone here who says their life outlook looks bleak would have said the exact same shit 30 years ago or even 100 years ago.
Life is suffering no matter when.
Just read all of Vonnegut's works again. It's weird hearing him outline, from the 1940s onward, the same exact issues we have today. There are easily 300 passages I could quote here and claim as my own commentary on modern life. No one would blink.
“The good Earth - we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap and lazy.”
"America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor."
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Still an historical low point. Did you not check a single link I posted?
You don't need to google this shit...
NM, you admitted it.
ALL of that has been going on since WWII, and slowly dialing down. The Ukraine war is such a shock because it's so damned unusual.
I didn't say the world was at peace, but war and death is at an all-time low. Look at the casualties reported in the news today. We're stunned if 100 people get killed in a single attack. There were WWI and WWII battles you've never even heard of where 4,000 men were killed at once.
As to my education: I have 2 years of Advanced European History under my belt and 4 college credits to show for it. Not to pull the age card, but at 54 I've lived a fair bit of modern history. I'm guessing you weren't around when global thermonuclear war was hanging over our head as a day-to-day fact of life?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Ukraine war alone reserved the trend.
The only thing that comapres is korean war.
You larping old regime propaganda in earnest jfc
Quit being a boomer and look at the numbers.
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Just read all of Vonnegut's works again. It's weird hearing him outline, from the 1940s onward, the same exact issues we have today. There are easily 300 passages I could quote here and claim as my own commentary on modern life. No one would blink.
“The good Earth - we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap and lazy.”
"America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor."
Suffering is not new. It's universal. To exist is to suffer. Even if we were to find an infinite source of energy and food, we would find a way to suffer.
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Having a child in 2025 is just plain selfish.
In the throes of the Great Depression, people were making babies.
In WWI and WWII, where thousands of men died every day, people were making babies.
In my time, the threat of planetary nuclear annihilation hung over our heads. I was made.
OP: This is all just so awful!
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And we're fighting this fight by breeding more wageslaves for the capitalists?
I don't mean to be as dramatic as this comes off, but I don't understand this logic. You don't work extra hard when you want to stick it to the rich, you don't work at all, i.e. go on strike. People not having kids would make sense as a strike of sorts.
Okay and how does people having children automatically force them into wage slavery? Its not a forgone conclusion by any means. Your kid could be the kid who picks up the pieces of capitalism and forges it into an equitable society. We just don't know. So why give in? Why give up on these children before they've truly had their chance? As I said in another comment, you might not have them but children will continue to be born regardless. Might as well foster some hope and kindness. Like Gandalf said, do the little things that keep the darkness at bay.
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Okay? I fail to see the relevance of your comment then. Its about how we feel of the children born today. Not how you feel about having children. The children dont have to be your's. They're going to be born whether you approve or not. Giving them a reason to have hope is still a choice you can make.
Obviously my answer to OP's question is "Yes". Now can we have a conversation with more nuance?
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Yup. Between climate collapse, wealth shift to the ultra wealthy, and the global surge in popularity of right wing extremist authoritarianism, I don't see things improving any time soon.
Things are rapidly degrading, and intentionally dropping a child into the dumpster fire we're turning our planet into is an act of cruelty and selfishness that few others measure up to.
Having a vasectomy was probably the best decision I've made - not for my sake, but the kid's and any even less fortunate grandkids and so on.
My own parents have finally fucked off a bit about when their grandchildren are coming, and lecturing me on how I'm cheating myself out of life's greatest joy or some shit... I think current events have finally become so glaringly bad that even they can't ignore it, but reminding them constantly about how unfair that would be for the kid was so fucking tiring.
wealth shift to the ultra wealthy
What in the world do you think the Great Depression was?!
extremist authoritarianism
WWII and the Soviet Union?
Climate change isn't even a unique issue. Humans already survived an ice age, with nothing more than stone age tools.
And I'll remind you, people were making babies all along.
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I personally cringe when I hear a friend js having a kid. All I can think of is how bad theyre going to have it. Hell id definitely have been better off being born 20 years earlier, but these new kids are REALLY screwed unless they have super rich parents.
"Nothing new under the sun" I suppose!
Mix of sad and angry. I see these broodmares popping out kids and I think of the movie Idiocracy because all of the more thoughtful people I know limited how many kids they had while the people having litters of kids all seem to be short-sighted selfish assholes. The thoughtful folks worry about saving college funds for the kids. The selfish ones don't. They don't have any plans, they are too busy making babies -- and those kids are going to be predisposed to be the same way which will make matters worse for the handful of kids raised by thoughtful parents.
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I'm sorry, but you are wildly naive. You've seen 22 years of this planet. You have no idea how good you and your potential offspring actually have it.
Age has nothing to do with how one is naive. Humanity will survive the climat crisis. That is sure...but at what cost...and that is what scares me
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The difference (sans 9/11 which isn't really comparable) is that all of those were actively worked on and ultimately solved.
We banned CFCs and fixed the Ozone layer.
We have done nuclear reduction treaties with USSR/US and later Russia/US, even under Putin.
We had prevention, medical and otherwise for HIV, and then effective treatment where having HIV is honestly not even that big a deal anymore.
We've created and improved upon much better seismic measurement methodology and equipment.People likewise thought the world would end in 2012 but through science and reason we have evolved past such superstitions.
Now let's compare to now:
What has been done about climate change? In the grand scheme - nothing. Renewables are all well and good, but most of the emissions are offset with carbon credits that mean absolutely nothing. Recycling is literally just a lie 99% of the time.
The risk of nuclear confrontation has actually increased, not decreased, since ~2012, between NK, collapsing USA, collapsing fascist Russia, increased standoffs between India and Pakistan, China's increasing militancy, increase in war just generally whether it's Palestine/Israel escalating (yes I'm aware it's been going on forever) or Ethiopia/Eritrea.
At least in my opinion, the bitter rivalry of the Cold war was actually significantly safer than the geopolitical farce we live, which i'd pinpoint as sometime around when Henry Kissinger got the Nobel Peace Prize.
We have the US as world police but the best they could do is give the Taliban some of their gear and get a lot of their own and others killed for it when they weren't busy crashing the world economy and electing fascists with global ambitions for shits and giggles.
Wow what a Belle Époque, Metternich himself would be proud. (/s of course)
We have widespread vaccine mistrust/hesitancy, which puts vulnerable people at risk, not to mention broadly reactionary, outright fascist/nationalist and anti-science, anti-reason and/or anti-intellectual currents among both the elite and powerful strata in society who pretty openly seek to undo the very solutions and improvements we have had over the last 40 odd years and the general population who not only not opposed them, but seem to find these ideas appealing, whether it's intersectional tolerance or workers' rights or people's general freedoms.
On top of all that, we are currently on course for a dictatorship of the rich, and while our conditions in terms of technology and science are nowhere near, our social attitudes seem downright feudal, if not worse when you consider the absurdity of the fact that most of the problems could literally be solved tomorrow (e.g. more empty houses in the UK than homeless people) but simply aren't for no actual legitimate reason whatsoever, and the world not only seems to not have any corrections lined up for this trajectory, but seems to be actively accelerating towards it.
So many times I've tried to ignore the world and tell myself in the grand scheme of things this must just be the darkest moment before the sunset, but it keeps getting darker and darker, and only faster and faster.
And to get ahead of the usual thought terminating cliches of "doomscrolling" and "go outside" in comments in threads like this - My life personally, world notwithstanding, is actually pretty great, I've been enormously lucky compared to many I know IRL, I'm happy on the whole, but it doesn't make the world around me any less hopeless and depressing or change the facts on which I base that opinion.
If anything, the use of those same cliches just proves this point further - because effectively it's no different than the "if I don't look, maybe it'll go away" from that Twilight Zone episode, and all other excuses like "we weren't meant to process this much information" that people use to kill the curiousity they have about the world within their very soul to protect their fragile selves from the absurdity of the hell we seem to inhabit at the moment, only reinforce further that the observation of the world today as bleak definitely has merit.
Renewables have actually been making enormous progress, at least wind and photovoltaic (which is by far the cheapest source of new large scale energy production). I assume that’s why our current dear leader is going so far out of his way to stifle them as much as possible. He’s just following the Project 2025 playbook from the Heritage Foundation, which seeks to preserve the failing US hegemony that is dependent on the petrodollar as the world reserve currency.
But I think you’re right about everything else, including how great my life is right now personally. I just see us on the precipice of doom, like Wile E. Coyote having not yet realized he has run off the cliff’s edge. I understand that it’s hard for a lot of people to project into the future and accept the doom. That requires both a broad understanding that most don’t possess and the nerve to look into the void.
I recently reached more peaceful acceptance about our impending climate and societal collapse after I read Cadillac Desert and realized that even without climate change our water needs are unsustainable and we’re heading for an agricultural collapse.
In the mean time I’m trying to participate in activities that I love and help my children to find activities they love. Might as well get some good times in.
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Age has nothing to do with how one is naive. Humanity will survive the climat crisis. That is sure...but at what cost...and that is what scares me
wrote last edited by [email protected]I can agree with you on all of that. In this instance my argument is that it's always been scary. We hide behind a false sense of security. It's always been this scary. It will always be this scary. We were born to die. Humankind is just like a human life. At one point, whether we like it or not, it will all end.
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IMO climate change is kind of a different beast than hardships from the past.
This mostly but also a lot of that support that's available today is being stripped away.
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I personally cringe when I hear a friend js having a kid. All I can think of is how bad theyre going to have it. Hell id definitely have been better off being born 20 years earlier, but these new kids are REALLY screwed unless they have super rich parents.
"Nothing new under the sun" I suppose!
Gf and I talk about this a lot. Both want kids but I don't know how to feel about this world anymore. I come from generational wealth so could just buy the kids houses but I feel like it's still going to be super shitty overall
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No. Only joy for the new parents and child. (Though I do put in work to shore up their finances, try to get them my next bonus.)
Several reasons: being a kid today is better than being a kid 20-50 years ago. Toys are cooler, parenting competence and training has broadly improved, minecraft exists, and there is some really good childrens TV.
Health risks are largely down, especially compared to 35 years ago. (Anecdotally about 10% of families around my cohort lost kids. Far fewer in the younger cohorts.)
While economic mobility is down, more people means a stronger voting block. Boomers run the world because their protests changed policy. I see indications that kids are a more competent politic than earlier generations (eg, climate and LGBTQ rights), we just need them to matter sooner.
For what it's worth, the economy is not just bad, it's breaking. If workers remain this exploited, there will soon be nobody to sell to. We are seeing large (usually stupid) interventions to try and address it, I put nontrivial odds on something sane eventually being tried.
War deaths are low and really don't seem likely to increase dramatically (see here).
Edit: I forgot to add LGBTQ rights/acceptance! While there are definitely still places that are not safe, many of them were not safe before (and that was just the status quo), I believe the risks have decreased and will continue to do so, while the medical access has improved (and that hopefully will continue, though I'm personally expecting that to get worse before it gets better. I think kids today probably get good care in 10 years, some kids 6-12 are in for a bad time.)
Toys are cooler, parenting competence and training has broadly improved, minecraft exists, and there is some really good childrens TV.
You've got a lot of good points, but I want to quibble about this one. I'm not an expert, but everything I've read about childhood development tells me toys like blocks, string, dirt/sand/water, and paper/pencils are the best toys. They are open-ended and drive critical thinking, exploration, and creativity. TV is the worst as it encourages passivity. Even when educational, TV encourages kids to sit and accept input rather than doing anything with that information. Yes, minecraft is akin to online blocks, and it does have some logic training, but it teaches in-game physics instead of letting toddlers discover real-world physics.
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Children born today will have to kill other human beings to obtain clean water within their lifetime.
It really comes down to if you think that's an acceptable world to have kids in.
I weep for the youth personally.
We already have been killing others for clean water if you think about it. Not directly but certainly through the actions of Nestle and other big corporations.
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Gf and I talk about this a lot. Both want kids but I don't know how to feel about this world anymore. I come from generational wealth so could just buy the kids houses but I feel like it's still going to be super shitty overall
Suffering from success. Jpeg
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Mix of sad and angry. I see these broodmares popping out kids and I think of the movie Idiocracy because all of the more thoughtful people I know limited how many kids they had while the people having litters of kids all seem to be short-sighted selfish assholes. The thoughtful folks worry about saving college funds for the kids. The selfish ones don't. They don't have any plans, they are too busy making babies -- and those kids are going to be predisposed to be the same way which will make matters worse for the handful of kids raised by thoughtful parents.
This comment is not grounded in any hard data besides this persons anecdote...
Statistically speaking I don't think there is a single large group of people with replacement level fertility. American racists loved dunking on blacks and latinos but they haven't been replacement level since 2010s.
Only groups who are insular communities like hasids, Mormons, certain Muslims.
Pedophilia rans rampant in these communities too...
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Yes I do. I am an anti-natalist because I care about people.
It is your right to make that choice for yourself.
