Life lesson, kid
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Checkmate, socialists
Checkmate, police more like
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That's Communism, not socialism. Sure, socialism has some similarities to Capitalism, that's because Socialism was never the end goal, but a transition period between Capitalism and Communism.
Yes, never said that was socialism, only that's how a fair society can only operate. Also, depending on the socialism in the context, it might not even be a transitionary period but rather bourgeois socialism that Marx criticized thoroughly in Critique of Gotha Programme, which is where 99% of my comment comes from
Workers don't 'exploit' themselves, workers decide if it's worth doing the work for what they can reasonably expect in return or not. If they decide it is worth it, it's something they chose for themselves, not even close to the same thing as a Capitalist squeezing every last cent of 'profit' from you as they possibly can and basically forcing you to do it by making it impossible to survive if you don't.
The market forces workers to exploit themselves, given how the primary way cost cutting happens is through decrease of wages, as most production costs are set in stone (like materials needed or machinery upkeep
They still get the full value of their labor. Taxes used to benefit the community benefit workers as well, because they are members of the commuity. Capitalists under capitalism still (are supposed to) pay taxes- and so do workers. Workers who are more fairly compensated for their work and have to pay taxes are better off than a wage slave who isn't fairly compensated and still has to pay taxes.
Yes, but if they pay a portion of value of their labor, they don't get the full value. It's an involuntary payment that is good and necessary, but the point is that getting full value is impossible under bourgeois state and commodity production society
Robots. Robot slaves for everyone is the solution.
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That's Communism, not socialism. Sure, socialism has some similarities to Capitalism, that's because Socialism was never the end goal, but a transition period between Capitalism and Communism.
Yes, never said that was socialism, only that's how a fair society can only operate. Also, depending on the socialism in the context, it might not even be a transitionary period but rather bourgeois socialism that Marx criticized thoroughly in Critique of Gotha Programme, which is where 99% of my comment comes from
Workers don't 'exploit' themselves, workers decide if it's worth doing the work for what they can reasonably expect in return or not. If they decide it is worth it, it's something they chose for themselves, not even close to the same thing as a Capitalist squeezing every last cent of 'profit' from you as they possibly can and basically forcing you to do it by making it impossible to survive if you don't.
The market forces workers to exploit themselves, given how the primary way cost cutting happens is through decrease of wages, as most production costs are set in stone (like materials needed or machinery upkeep
They still get the full value of their labor. Taxes used to benefit the community benefit workers as well, because they are members of the commuity. Capitalists under capitalism still (are supposed to) pay taxes- and so do workers. Workers who are more fairly compensated for their work and have to pay taxes are better off than a wage slave who isn't fairly compensated and still has to pay taxes.
Yes, but if they pay a portion of value of their labor, they don't get the full value. It's an involuntary payment that is good and necessary, but the point is that getting full value is impossible under bourgeois state and commodity production society
Yes, never said that was socialism, only that’s how a fair society can only operate.
Ok, well it's confusing how you worded it then because you start by saying "It’s not socialism", and then you describe communism. It made it sound as if you were saying that it was socialism.
It might not even be a transitionary period
Sure, and some societies already act as if the end goal is socialism. Even so I think it's valuable to try and work toward socialism because even if it doesn't ever fully transition to communism (or is extremely slow about it), that state of being is still preferable to Capitalism.
The market forces workers to exploit themselves, given how the primary way cost cutting happens is through decrease of wages
Sure, under Capitalism that's true- I doubt the first thing a collective of workers would think to do is cutting their wages. They would probably cut the CEO's and the Middle Managers pay to make the pay fair for everybody.
I just disagree with your definition of 'exploit'. Agreeing with your fellow workers to take home less pay to keep the factory viable is not exploitation. A CEO cutting workers pay so that hey can pay himself $40,000,000/yr IS exploitation. It's not the same thing at all imo.
Yes, but if they pay a portion of value of their labor, they don’t get the full value
Again, the definitely DO get the full value of their labor. A worker is a member of the community. A worker pay's taxes for things that benefit the community. As a member of the community, the taxes benefit the worker.
It’s an involuntary payment that is good and necessary
It's only 'involuntary' if you are stuck in a capitalist mode of thinking and aren't willingly pitching in to help the community. If socialism 'forces' such a person to help- that's only going to benefit the community. Under communism no one could force such a person to contribute.
the point is that getting full value is impossible under bourgeois state and commodity production society
I really don't think most socialists are as hung op on getting the 'full value' out of their labor as you are making it sound. It's not about squeezing every last penny of 'profit' from your labor as is humanly possible. It's about being fairly compensated for your time and effort- that's it. If we "have" to pay taxes- fine. If we "have" to accept a slightly lower compensation for a time fine.
CEO's cutting benefits and pay to pay themselves more money- not fine. Wage theft- not fine.
If we could snap our fingers and go straight from a Capitalist hellhole to a Communist utopia- I'd be snapping right along with you. We can't though and as you can tell it's hard enough to get people on board with socialism. There is no way most people will just accept jumping straight to Communism. They have to be shown that sharing resources is a viable strategy first- because they definitely don't believe that now.
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Many things ruined Reddit. So many things.
Some even say Reddit ruined Reddit
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Hell yeah!
Leftists will read this and say, “”
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Also, taxes aren't theft. You get something in return for it, usually services and infrastructure. Dad didn't give anything back for the stolen Duplos. Says my dog.
(Oh, and please tell your dog I said hi.)
Taxation can basically be theft depending on the situation. Remember that paying taxes is compulsory and not inherently a form of mutual aid.
It's possible to tex someone against their will and with no benefit offered to them.
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Edit: there are some minor mistakes with the title and the text in the meme indicating that it's Lego, not duplo...
Don't be pedantic; that's what ruined Reddit in the first place.
What does “means of production” even mean in 2025? It’s not like we all work in a shoe factory
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Robots. Robot slaves for everyone is the solution.
Fully automated luxury gay space communism
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I didn't ask my cat anything. He just ran up, smacked me, called me a loser, and stole a chicken thigh off my plate.
That's a kleptocat, clearly just bypassing capitalism/communism and going straight to the end game
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What does “means of production” even mean in 2025? It’s not like we all work in a shoe factory
Something that produces goods or services.
For example, a musician makes music as a service, and that music can be made into a commodity either with a packaged good such as a book of sheet music or a method of storing the music (a file or disc), or you can sell tickets to hear the music.
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Something that produces goods or services.
For example, a musician makes music as a service, and that music can be made into a commodity either with a packaged good such as a book of sheet music or a method of storing the music (a file or disc), or you can sell tickets to hear the music.
Im a condo superintendent, so I don’t really produce anything. I just look at your leaky roof, nod and call a guy.
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Im a condo superintendent, so I don’t really produce anything. I just look at your leaky roof, nod and call a guy.
You do produce a lack of issue. Like there was an issue, then you make it not an issue.
What would be the means of production? I am uncertain.
- Even in communist paradise, we will have building superintendents.
- On the other hand, owning one's own home might be the means of production in this sense.
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Im a condo superintendent, so I don’t really produce anything. I just look at your leaky roof, nod and call a guy.
So the condo association here is the 'means of production' since they're providing housing services. Ideally, it'd be owned by the workers (who would ideally also be condo owners) and they'd split any profits evenly.
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Im a condo superintendent, so I don’t really produce anything. I just look at your leaky roof, nod and call a guy.
You do provide a service though. Do the people who own the apartments actively do anything in particular that makes sense for them to own it completely?
Who do you think would have a more vested interest in running the apartments in a functional and efficient manner, the people maintaining the buildings or the people who see it as one of their many investment properties.
Socialism isn't just about what's fair, it's also about creating a more efficient system to distribute labour and resources.
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So the condo association here is the 'means of production' since they're providing housing services. Ideally, it'd be owned by the workers (who would ideally also be condo owners) and they'd split any profits evenly.
Ah, Landlords aren't the evil capitalist class then. They're just a worker that owns the means of production and splits the profits evenly with themselves.
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Edit: there are some minor mistakes with the title and the text in the meme indicating that it's Lego, not duplo...
Don't be pedantic; that's what ruined Reddit in the first place.
My god reddit being pedantic is the understatement of the year...
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Don't be pedantic; that's what ruined Reddit in the first place.
It seems like everybody has a different theory about wHaT rUiNeD ReDdIt
What ruined Reddit is the enshitification.
As far as the people themselves go... A message board is a message board. People on Lemmy hate to hear it, but there is no difference between Reddit and Lemmy in that regard. Lemmy's population is just smaller.
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You do produce a lack of issue. Like there was an issue, then you make it not an issue.
What would be the means of production? I am uncertain.
- Even in communist paradise, we will have building superintendents.
- On the other hand, owning one's own home might be the means of production in this sense.
The organization and tools involved in the job.
So for the condo super "owning the means" could be being part of co-op that manages the building.
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Ah, Landlords aren't the evil capitalist class then. They're just a worker that owns the means of production and splits the profits evenly with themselves.
Wrong, idiot.
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Ah, Landlords aren't the evil capitalist class then. They're just a worker that owns the means of production and splits the profits evenly with themselves.
Maybe there's a terminology problem, but I thought each condo unit was individually owned? Like, if you've got a tower block, and everybody owns their own domicile within it, it's a condo, but if they're owned by a landlord and rented out, it's an apartment.
