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  3. Brian Eno: “The biggest problem about AI is not intrinsic to AI. It’s to do with the fact that it’s owned by the same few people”

Brian Eno: “The biggest problem about AI is not intrinsic to AI. It’s to do with the fact that it’s owned by the same few people”

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  • P [email protected]

    This is where "universal basic income" comes into play

    A This user is from outside of this forum
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    wrote on last edited by
    #101

    More broadly, I would expect UBI to trigger a golden age of invention and artistic creation because a lot of people would love to spend their time just creating new stuff without the need to monetise it but can't under the current system.

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    • A [email protected]

      Also the energy for those datacenters has to come from somewhere and non-renewable options (gas, oil, nuclear generation) also use a lot of water as part of the generation process itself and for cooling.

      L This user is from outside of this forum
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      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #102

      steam that runs turbines tends to be recirculated. that's already in the paper.

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      • C [email protected]
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        wrote on last edited by
        #103

        My biggest gripe with current AI is the same problem I have with anything crypto.
        It's out of control power consumption relative to the problem it solves or purpose it serves.

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        • P [email protected]

          This is where "universal basic income" comes into play

          blackmist@feddit.ukB This user is from outside of this forum
          blackmist@feddit.ukB This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #104

          Unfortunately one will not lead to the other.

          It will lead to the plot of Elysium.

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          • F [email protected]

            And a third intrinsic problem is that the current models with infinite training data have been proven to never approach human language capability, from papers written by OpenAI in 2020 and Deepmind in 2022, and also a paper by Stanford which proposes AI simply have no emergent behavior and only convergent behavior.

            So yeah. Lots of problems.

            A This user is from outside of this forum
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            wrote on last edited by
            #105

            While I completely agree with you, that is the one thing that could change with just one thing going right for all the groups that work on just that problem.

            It's what happens after that that's scary.

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            • riskable@programming.devR [email protected]

              ...in the same way that someone who's read a lot of books can make money by writing their own.

              B This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote on last edited by
              #106

              Do you know someone who's read a billion books and can write a new (trashy) book in 5 mins?

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              • F [email protected]

                I don't really agree that this is the biggest issue, for me the biggest issue is power consumption.

                C This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote on last edited by
                #107

                That is a big issue, but excessive power consumption isn't intrinsic to AI. You can run a reasonably good AI on your home computer.

                The AI companies don't seem concerned about the diminishing returns, though, and will happily spend 1000% more power to gain that last 10% better intelligence. In a competitive market why wouldn't they, when power is so cheap.

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                • ? Guest

                  My biggest gripe with current AI is the same problem I have with anything crypto.
                  It's out of control power consumption relative to the problem it solves or purpose it serves.

                  K This user is from outside of this forum
                  K This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #108

                  My biggest gripe with AI is the same problem I have with anything crypto
                  crypto: It's out of control power consumption relative to the problem it solves or purpose it serves.

                  Don't thrown all crypto under the bus.
                  Only bitcoin and other proof of work protocols are power hungry. 2nd and 3rd generation crypto use mostly proof of stake and ZKrollups for security. Much more energy efficient.

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                  • riskable@programming.devR [email protected]

                    This completely ignores all the endless (open) academic work going on in the AI space. Loads of universities have AI data centers now and are doing great research that is being published out in the open for anyone to use and duplicate.

                    I've downloaded several academic models and all commercial models and AI tools are based on all that public research.

                    I run AI models locally on my PC and you can too.

                    N This user is from outside of this forum
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                    wrote on last edited by
                    #109

                    That is entirely true and one of my favorite things about it. I just wish there was a way to nurture more of that and less of the, "Hi, I'm Alvin and my job is to make your Fortune-500 company even more profitable...the key is to pay people less!" type of AI.

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                    • ? Guest

                      My biggest gripe with current AI is the same problem I have with anything crypto.
                      It's out of control power consumption relative to the problem it solves or purpose it serves.

                      G This user is from outside of this forum
                      G This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #110

                      Here we are using recycled bags, banning straws, putting explosive refrigerant in fridges and using led lights in everything

                      lol, sucker. none of that does shit and industry was already destroying the planet just fine before ai came along.

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                      • C [email protected]
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                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #111

                        brian eno is cooler than most of you can ever hope to be.

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                        • T [email protected]

                          But you can make this argument for anything that is used to make rich people richer. Even something as basic as pen and paper is used everyday to make rich people richer.

                          Why attack the technology if its the rich people you are against and not the technology itself.

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                          wrote on last edited by
                          #112

                          It's not even the people; it's their actions. If we could figure out how to regulate its use so its profit-generation capacity doesn't build on itself exponentially at the expense of the fair treatment of others and instead actively proliferate the models that help people, I'm all for it, for the record.

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                          • C [email protected]
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                            wrote on last edited by
                            #113

                            That's... just not true? Current frontier AI models are actually surprisingly diverse, there are a dozen companies from America, Europe, and China releasing competitive models. Let alone the countless finetunes created by the community. And many of them you can run entirely on your own hardware so no one really has control over how they are used.

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                            • N [email protected]

                              Techno-Feudalism

                              I'll say it, yet again. It's just feudalism. "Techno-Feudalism" has nothing different enough to it to differentiate it as even a sub-type of feudalism. It's just the same thing all over again, using technological advances to improve the ability to monitor and impose control over the populace. Historical feudalists also leveraged technology to cement their rule (plate armor, cavalry, crossbows, cannon, mills, control of literacy, etc).

                              C This user is from outside of this forum
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                              wrote on last edited by
                              #114

                              Attaching "tech" to everything makes it more palatable. Desirable even. It masks the fact that feudal lords are reinventing everything but with "tech".

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                              • J [email protected]

                                Eno is more a traditional algorist than "AI" (by which people generally mean neural networks)

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                                wrote on last edited by
                                #115

                                I could see him using neural networks to generate and intentionally pick and loop short bits with weird anomalies or glitchy sounds. Thats the route I’d like AI in music to go, so maybe that’s what I’m reading in, but it fits Eno’s vibe and philosophy.

                                AI as a tool not to replace other forms of music, but doing things like training it on contrasting music genres or self made bits or otherwise creatively breaking and reconstructing the artwork.

                                John Cage was all about ‘stochastic’ music - composing based on what he divined from the I Ching. There are people who have been kicking around ideas like this for longer than the AI bubble has been around - the big problem will be digging out the good stuff when the people typing “generate a three hour vapor wave playlist” can upload ten videos a day…

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                                • C [email protected]
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                                  kingthrillgore@lemmy.mlK This user is from outside of this forum
                                  kingthrillgore@lemmy.mlK This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #116

                                  He's not wrong.

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                                  • K [email protected]

                                    My biggest gripe with AI is the same problem I have with anything crypto
                                    crypto: It's out of control power consumption relative to the problem it solves or purpose it serves.

                                    Don't thrown all crypto under the bus.
                                    Only bitcoin and other proof of work protocols are power hungry. 2nd and 3rd generation crypto use mostly proof of stake and ZKrollups for security. Much more energy efficient.

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                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #117

                                    I'm aware of this, but it still mostly just something for people speculate on. Something people buy, sit on, and then hopefully sell with a profit.

                                    Bitcoin was supposed to be a decentralized money alternative, but the amount of people actually buying things with crypto are highly negligible.

                                    And honestly even if was actually used for that the power consumption would still be something to discuss.

                                    null@slrpnk.netN K 2 Replies Last reply
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                                    • G [email protected]

                                      Here we are using recycled bags, banning straws, putting explosive refrigerant in fridges and using led lights in everything

                                      lol, sucker. none of that does shit and industry was already destroying the planet just fine before ai came along.

                                      ? Offline
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                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #118

                                      Dare I assume you are aware we have "industry" because we consume?

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                                      • K [email protected]

                                        My biggest gripe with AI is the same problem I have with anything crypto
                                        crypto: It's out of control power consumption relative to the problem it solves or purpose it serves.

                                        Don't thrown all crypto under the bus.
                                        Only bitcoin and other proof of work protocols are power hungry. 2nd and 3rd generation crypto use mostly proof of stake and ZKrollups for security. Much more energy efficient.

                                        B This user is from outside of this forum
                                        B This user is from outside of this forum
                                        [email protected]
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #119

                                        Sure, but despite all the crypto bros assurances to the contrary, the only real-world applications for it is buying drugs, paying ransoms and getting scammed. Which means that any non-zero amount of energy is too much energy.

                                        K 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • ? Guest

                                          Dare I assume you are aware we have "industry" because we consume?

                                          G This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #120

                                          yes. we are cancer. i live on as little as possible but i don't delude myself into thinking my actions have any effect on the whole.

                                          i spent nearly 20 years not using paper towels until i realized how pointless it was. now i throw my trash out the window. we're all fucked. if we want to change things, there's only one tool that will fix it. until people realize that, i really don't fucking care any more.

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