Why don't protestors who oppose Trump/ICE open carry their guns to prevent what's currently occuring in the US ie kidnapping, assaults etc?
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It means that having a state-level military is important to the security of states, so the federal government will not ban the ownership of private firearms. States could and did ban private ownership of firearms early on. Some states did not.
No...no it did not.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.
-June 8th 1789, James Madison
-Early draft of the 2nd amendment.
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Planes can't patrol street corners
Sure, but tanks/armored vehicles can, and police absolutely use those
Yes because that worked so well in Afghanistan...or Iraq
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lost Vietnam, lost iraq, lost Afghanistan, and tied in Korea.
But we're not talking about Vietnam, Iraq, etc.
In many of these cases, the people in these countries had experience living under unimaginably harsh colonial rule, and understood that that was what was in store for them if they lost. Guerilla warfare is hell, especially for the side of the guerillas. It's very rare that anyone chooses that route unless they have no other choice. Also, there was generally a more unified culture and a clarity of vision for what they were fighting for.
You take a random sample of 100 Americans, at least a third will actively support the enemy side and sell you out. Of those who aren't opposed, a lot will be able to just keep their heads down and go about their lives, coming home to play video games and jerk off for as long as they have that option. Of those willing to get involved, many will limit their opposition to nonviolence and whatever form of protest the state permits. So now you've got, like, three people who are actually willing to fight and not just go home at the first sign of danger, and those three people probably hate each other for subscribing to slightly different ideologies which have different takes on events from 100 years ago.
Contrast that with a random sample of 100 Vietnamese at the time of the war. There's no comparison.
Are you suggesting that people have to live under harsh conditions to fight back? It surely helps, but go read about the french or polish during WWII before you think that a group needs to be oppressed for years and years.
Hell look at Ukraine and how it's civilians stepped up.
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Don't turn your back on the police and don't face them alone, fucking duh. Cops are cowards, they'll be a lot more hesitant to shoot someone if there's a credible risk of dozens/hundreds of other people immediately shooting back.
No shit. That's the problem. You bring your friends and the cops will bring their tanks. Then what, have a dick measuring contest?
... Oh wait, they'll gun you all down and laugh about it instead.
So yeah, guns can be used, but let's not pretend flexing your firearm in public will easily accomplish your goal. Be thoughtful and careful about when and where.
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No we lost those wars because you can't occupy a group of people who are armed and don't want to be occupied.
All 4 of those wars, the people didn't speak our language, look like us or dress like us. The fuck you think is gonna happen when the military starts shooting civs here who look like them, talk like them and basically are them. You will get a fractured military and probably a coup. You will get gorilla cells popping up supporting the sides the align with.
The worlds greatest military can't fight it's own people. Period.
Gaza had/has weapons and doesn’t want to be occupied how is that working out for them?
In Cambodia the people looked like them, dressed like them, and were them. They were still put into some of the worst torture camps in history and approximately 1/4 of their population was killed…
That’s why they don’t start by attacking everyone they start by dehumanizing people, like they have been with “the illegals”, then you make them a scapegoat for all your problems. Then a radical terrorist network appears who is helping the undesirables that has loose ties so just about anyone can be labeled a terrorist (in this case it’s Antifa). Then you start provoking violence against this group, that’s where we are today in the United states.
Then either real violence happens or a frame job happens and the military has to intervene and a group of protesters get killed. Then special missions have to happen to take out the so called leaders of this terrorist group that somehow happen to involve a bunch of politicians and people critical of the party, then you can make a special task force whose job is it to deal with these troublemakers that you recruit for on a volunteer basis so you get only the most extreme and loyal soldiers and use them to continue further oppressing.
I could keep going but honestly choose any history textbook and it could summarize it, the point is they don’t tell the military to shoot unarmed protesters on day one and by the time they do the military will not just do it but they will go even further than directed as can be seen in Nazi germany, pol pots Cambodia, and is in progress in Gaza
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Italy has massive nation wide unions (syndicates) and these strikes had more participation than any other in recent years. They exist today because of huge support for communists in the WW2 aftermath. I don't think the US has anything of the sorts
No I think McCarthyism was detrimental to our unions
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They weren’t an American colony
South Vietnam was an American puppet regime. The puppet regime was entirely dependent on the US military and the leaders were picked by the US and ousted whenever they did something the US didn't like. You are plainly speaking in bad faith and attempting to use technicalities to avoid facing the truth of the US defeat. "Mhm, see, technically, Japan didn't lose that territory because Manchuko was an independent blah blah blah." It's an obviously stupid line if you apply it in any other context, but your chauvinism blinds you. Just like the line about "We only 'lost' because of morale" or the line about kill death ratios mattering, apply it anywhere but Vietnam and you'll see how fucking stupid it is.
You do realize video games use things that exist in the real world right? Like if I talk about how important goals are in soccer you do know that is because that’s how soccer works and it’s not just because that’s how you win in fifa?
Nazi Germany killed a hell of a lot of Russians in WWII. I don't actually know if they killed more than they lost, I believe so but I'd have to check. Does that mean Nazi Germany won WWII? Does that mean I don't know who won WWII, because I don't know the KDRs? Do you see how ridiculous it is to say that? And yet, that's exactly what you're saying about Vietnam!
To any concern about Vietnam taking over the world
You literally just said they "failed in their goal to spread communism." As in, to spread communism beyond their borders. As in, Domino Theory. As in, the idea that the communists fighting in Vietnam were aiming to take over the world and turn it communist. You're straight up contradicting yourself.
Christ Jesus in heaven.
Russia took over Germany, they invaded the land and took it by force that’s winning. North Vietnam did not take American land, so they don’t meet that requirement of winning. Germany surrendered. The US did not surrender so they don’t meet that requirement of losing. Russia established a real puppet government in east Berlin where they had full control over the Germans who lived there. North Vietnam had no control over the U.S.
So in what ways can we analyze north Vietnam showing domination over the United States?
It was a bar fight between 3 brothers NVA, VC, and ARVN. the two brothers NVA and VC were beating ARVNs ass then a random dude at the bar who was kind of drunk wanders over and tells ARVN he will help him and then proceeds to kill VC, he then starts beating the shit out of NVA but NVA keeps getting up and trying to hit ARVN so finally the drunk dude walks away with some bloody knuckles and a little scratch on his face and NVA finishes what he started and beats ARVNs ass. Saying that NVA beat up the drunk POS makes no sense, you can say NVA won the brotherly fight but saying he beat up the drunk POS is an objectively incorrect statement
Domino theory wasn’t that Vietnam was going to conquer adjacent areas it was that the idea of communism was going to spread and there would be seperate revolutions in those countries
Not sure if you are drunk, high, or just uneducated but just read the Wikipedia article about the Vietnam war before you reply because your misunderstandings of basic things like what domino theory is even about is causing you too much confusion
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No shit. That's the problem. You bring your friends and the cops will bring their tanks. Then what, have a dick measuring contest?
... Oh wait, they'll gun you all down and laugh about it instead.
So yeah, guns can be used, but let's not pretend flexing your firearm in public will easily accomplish your goal. Be thoughtful and careful about when and where.
We had tanks in Afghanistan, didn't stop us from losing. Nobody in history, no matter how well armed, has ever won a war against a dedicated insurgency.
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Are you suggesting that people have to live under harsh conditions to fight back? It surely helps, but go read about the french or polish during WWII before you think that a group needs to be oppressed for years and years.
Hell look at Ukraine and how it's civilians stepped up.
I'm not suggesting that. What I am suggesting is that there are major differences between a modern day American and a Vietnamese person during the war, which makes comparisons difficult. It's just a bit of a pet peeve when people are like, "We'll just do a guerilla war, no biggie, worked loads of times." Sure, it can be an effective tactic, but you have to understand why it was effective in certain cases and what that entailed.
I don't believe the US left has much of a chance of winning a domestic military conflict, looking at the material conditions and the present level of organization, discipline, and training (or lack thereof). If we end up being forced to fight then we can hope for the best, and preparing for the possibility is a worthwhile endeavor. But don't think that just because guerilla tactics exist that it's trivial to employ them.
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Is this not the reason the second amendment exists?
Regards
An Australian
Edit: I'm not advocating for violence. More so "a well regulated militia" which could be established by protesters or Democratic Governors for genuine self defence.Armed victims increase the cost of tyranical actions but modern warfare and thus miltia movements is not just (have weapon, intimidate or kill enemy). Honestly one of the failures of the defense of the second amendment has been the failure to modernize and includr other parts of warfare.
Honestly there is a mixture of denial in what is actually happening and support too
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Russia took over Germany, they invaded the land and took it by force that’s winning. North Vietnam did not take American land, so they don’t meet that requirement of winning. Germany surrendered. The US did not surrender so they don’t meet that requirement of losing. Russia established a real puppet government in east Berlin where they had full control over the Germans who lived there. North Vietnam had no control over the U.S.
So in what ways can we analyze north Vietnam showing domination over the United States?
It was a bar fight between 3 brothers NVA, VC, and ARVN. the two brothers NVA and VC were beating ARVNs ass then a random dude at the bar who was kind of drunk wanders over and tells ARVN he will help him and then proceeds to kill VC, he then starts beating the shit out of NVA but NVA keeps getting up and trying to hit ARVN so finally the drunk dude walks away with some bloody knuckles and a little scratch on his face and NVA finishes what he started and beats ARVNs ass. Saying that NVA beat up the drunk POS makes no sense, you can say NVA won the brotherly fight but saying he beat up the drunk POS is an objectively incorrect statement
Domino theory wasn’t that Vietnam was going to conquer adjacent areas it was that the idea of communism was going to spread and there would be seperate revolutions in those countries
Not sure if you are drunk, high, or just uneducated but just read the Wikipedia article about the Vietnam war before you reply because your misunderstandings of basic things like what domino theory is even about is causing you too much confusion
but just read the Wikipedia article about the Vietnam war
Lmao.
It was a bar fight between 3 brothers
No it wasn't. It was the Vietnamese fighting against the invaders and their comprador regime.
Russia took over Germany, they invaded the land and took it by force that’s winning.
Nuh uh! Who cares about land, Germany had a higher KDR, that means they won! KDRs are super important in determining who won or lost, that's what I learned from you, that's why you brought it up in the first place, isn't it? Or were you just talking nonsense, coming up with excuses for why the US didn't "really" lose?
So in what ways can we analyze north Vietnam showing domination over the United States?
They weren't fighting over "domination over the United States," dumbass, they were fighting over control of Vietnam. Which they got.
I have no idea where this idea comes from that seems to be something exclusively American, that "defeat" means total, unconditional surrender and occupation, and anything short of that isn't "really" a defeat. It's so insane. Like, after the War of Spanish Succession, pretty sure all involved countries still existed afterwards, but one side got who they wanted on the Spanish throne and the other side didn't, meaning, one side won and the other side lost. I guess according to you, the countries that dumped tons of blood and treasure and got nothing out of it "didn't really lose" because they weren't occupied. More realistically, you would say they lost, because they did lose and anyone can see it, and, and this is crucial, the US wasn't involved so you're not blinded by your chauvanism and propaganda, like you are with Vietnam.
The absolute state of education in this country... zero understanding of anything, literally just reciting a bunch of memes and talking points designed to twist words around in order to defend the US's "honor." Americans are such a lost cause, how am I supposed to reason with this shit? Excuses after excuses after excuses, can't back up even a single point.
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We had tanks in Afghanistan, didn't stop us from losing. Nobody in history, no matter how well armed, has ever won a war against a dedicated insurgency.
This right here. Asymmetrical warfare is terrible for modern occupying armies.
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Gaza had/has weapons and doesn’t want to be occupied how is that working out for them?
In Cambodia the people looked like them, dressed like them, and were them. They were still put into some of the worst torture camps in history and approximately 1/4 of their population was killed…
That’s why they don’t start by attacking everyone they start by dehumanizing people, like they have been with “the illegals”, then you make them a scapegoat for all your problems. Then a radical terrorist network appears who is helping the undesirables that has loose ties so just about anyone can be labeled a terrorist (in this case it’s Antifa). Then you start provoking violence against this group, that’s where we are today in the United states.
Then either real violence happens or a frame job happens and the military has to intervene and a group of protesters get killed. Then special missions have to happen to take out the so called leaders of this terrorist group that somehow happen to involve a bunch of politicians and people critical of the party, then you can make a special task force whose job is it to deal with these troublemakers that you recruit for on a volunteer basis so you get only the most extreme and loyal soldiers and use them to continue further oppressing.
I could keep going but honestly choose any history textbook and it could summarize it, the point is they don’t tell the military to shoot unarmed protesters on day one and by the time they do the military will not just do it but they will go even further than directed as can be seen in Nazi germany, pol pots Cambodia, and is in progress in Gaza
Gaza was not armed at all, no clue where you got that from hamas has weapons but the citizens are banned from owning firearms.
Pol pot and Cambodia...banned and confiscated civilian arms. Not hard to commit genocide when literally no one but your side is armed.
Nazi Germany with the jewish population...disarmed and sent to camps to be slaughtered.
Seeing any...links here?
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I'm not suggesting that. What I am suggesting is that there are major differences between a modern day American and a Vietnamese person during the war, which makes comparisons difficult. It's just a bit of a pet peeve when people are like, "We'll just do a guerilla war, no biggie, worked loads of times." Sure, it can be an effective tactic, but you have to understand why it was effective in certain cases and what that entailed.
I don't believe the US left has much of a chance of winning a domestic military conflict, looking at the material conditions and the present level of organization, discipline, and training (or lack thereof). If we end up being forced to fight then we can hope for the best, and preparing for the possibility is a worthwhile endeavor. But don't think that just because guerilla tactics exist that it's trivial to employ them.
I'm not saying it would be easy. I'm saying don't underestimate small arms in civilian hands vs a military.
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Gaza was not armed at all, no clue where you got that from hamas has weapons but the citizens are banned from owning firearms.
Pol pot and Cambodia...banned and confiscated civilian arms. Not hard to commit genocide when literally no one but your side is armed.
Nazi Germany with the jewish population...disarmed and sent to camps to be slaughtered.
Seeing any...links here?
And republicans would never attempt to take guns away from liberals
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but just read the Wikipedia article about the Vietnam war
Lmao.
It was a bar fight between 3 brothers
No it wasn't. It was the Vietnamese fighting against the invaders and their comprador regime.
Russia took over Germany, they invaded the land and took it by force that’s winning.
Nuh uh! Who cares about land, Germany had a higher KDR, that means they won! KDRs are super important in determining who won or lost, that's what I learned from you, that's why you brought it up in the first place, isn't it? Or were you just talking nonsense, coming up with excuses for why the US didn't "really" lose?
So in what ways can we analyze north Vietnam showing domination over the United States?
They weren't fighting over "domination over the United States," dumbass, they were fighting over control of Vietnam. Which they got.
I have no idea where this idea comes from that seems to be something exclusively American, that "defeat" means total, unconditional surrender and occupation, and anything short of that isn't "really" a defeat. It's so insane. Like, after the War of Spanish Succession, pretty sure all involved countries still existed afterwards, but one side got who they wanted on the Spanish throne and the other side didn't, meaning, one side won and the other side lost. I guess according to you, the countries that dumped tons of blood and treasure and got nothing out of it "didn't really lose" because they weren't occupied. More realistically, you would say they lost, because they did lose and anyone can see it, and, and this is crucial, the US wasn't involved so you're not blinded by your chauvanism and propaganda, like you are with Vietnam.
The absolute state of education in this country... zero understanding of anything, literally just reciting a bunch of memes and talking points designed to twist words around in order to defend the US's "honor." Americans are such a lost cause, how am I supposed to reason with this shit? Excuses after excuses after excuses, can't back up even a single point.
Is chauvinism your sat word of the day because you also don’t know what that means either.
I had a hope that you at least had the capacity for some rational thought but you clearly showed you don’t. So send your final edgy reply and then you can go back to covering your ears and shouting into the void
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Is chauvinism your sat word of the day because you also don’t know what that means either.
I had a hope that you at least had the capacity for some rational thought but you clearly showed you don’t. So send your final edgy reply and then you can go back to covering your ears and shouting into the void
Lmao I'm the one with no capacity for rational thought? Defend anything you said this conversation. Any one thing:
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The Vietnam War was "lost" in morale - Show me a war that was lost not on morale
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Kill Death Ratios are important in determining who won or lost - explain how this applies when we look at WWII
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Vietnam lost because they failed in their goal of spreading communism and didn't occupy the US - show me how this applies to other wars, such as my random example of the War of Spanish Succession
You can't. You just move on seamlessly from one excuse to the next, zero thought put into anything you say, zero reason or evidence, just pure brainless talking points, probably just regurgitating what some coach passing for a history teacher told you.
Stand by one thing you said.
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Look up what happened to the Black Panther Party (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party).
If people showed up organized and armed, the Federal government would be more than happy to use under the table tactics to make sure we'd never see our families again.
With that being said, I wouldn't be surprise if people are armed but just not being public about it. Armed protestors are usually the nuclear option for any movement, but it's good to have that unspoken option on the table behind the scenes.
This, why would a given group of protestors all open carry? I'd expect a mass of conceal-carried weapons, though.
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Is this not the reason the second amendment exists?
Regards
An Australian
Edit: I'm not advocating for violence. More so "a well regulated militia" which could be established by protesters or Democratic Governors for genuine self defence.I believe open carry is illegal here in Illinois.
The meta I've heard is also that, if you're gonna brandish or draw a gun, you'd better be prepared to kill with it. I'm not prepared to die shooting cops so I don't feel like carrying. In the confusion of a gun fight I don't think I'd have much to add by shooting anyone
Like if someone told me that the 2nd amendment just causes more shootings and doesn't actually protect people on average I'd say yeah...
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They're Americans in ICE. That tells you all you need to know about their characters.
That a large chunk of them are probably doing it primarily because the US economy is trash and they can't find any other work?
