UK police probe Bob Vylan's festival chants against Israeli military, as US revokes band's visas
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Oh, don't discount the Racism.
People aren't being investigated by police for criticizing Russia.
If it was only about money, they wouldn't have reacted as they did to Russia's invasion of Ukraine given all the money many were making from Russian fossil fuels and mineral wealth.
The big difference in the reaction to Russia's Genocide in Ukraine and to Israel's Genocide in Gaza (which is way worse both in numbers and in how many of the civilians being murdered are small children) is that in Ukraine the victims are Whites as are the aggressors whilst in Gaza the victims are (brown) Muslims whilst the aggressors are Whites.
At least amongst the power elites, especially in places like the US, UK and Germany, White Colonialism isn't just this old 19th century practice we fortunatelly left behind, rather it's a way of viewing the world which very much alive and widelly held.
Racism is an inherent component of capitalism,
Especially it’s late stage of decline, fascism where those in power obfuscate their culpability by redirecting the ire of the masses towards scapegoated social classes -
Death to Israeli apartheid. Death to the institutions that uphold the Israeli Apartheid. Death to the institutions that uphold the occupation, the disposession and the genocide of Palestinians. Death to the structures that maim the humanity of both the colonizers and the colonized.
Long live all the people who live in Palestine from the river to the sea. Long live the children, the life, all children, all life, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, and other. Palestinian, Druze, Bedouin, Samaritan, Mizrahi, Ashkenaz, Sephardic, and other.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]You were warned, this is now a temp ban. Continuing to be an asshole will earn a permanent ban.
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These are contradictory statements, it makes no sense. When you say that "Ukraine can do whatever they need to do [in the face of] an illegal invasion and genocidal statements and actions" YOU are also saying that they can use deadly force. YOU are advocating violence on behalf of Ukraine. But if we flip the bit from Ukraine to Palestine suddenly it breaks the TOS?
I am not, Ukraine is outside this place, what happens outside this place does not need to conform to our rules.
If you're going to participate, you will abide by the rules.
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No, Ukraine can do whatever they need to do to throw off an illegal invasion and genocidal statements and actions.
Palestinian can't?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Palestine can also do what they want, they aren't subject to the rules here. The people here will abide by our rules.
I'll make it super simple:
(Lemmy.World Rules (World.Lemmy.World Rules)) . . . (The entire rest of the world, including Palestine, Israel, Russia, Ukraine... everyone)
If you're here, you agree to our ruleset. If you're not here, our rules don't apply to you.
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You can't stop the mouvement and Palestinians has the right to self defense whatever you like it or not
I'm not interested in stopping anything outside bad behavior in the groups I moderate.
I have nothing to do with "the movement" and neither do you.
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I wonder what the term is for anti-palestinian? The equivalent to anti-Semite but for Muslims I guess? Just Islamophobia? That doesn't have a good ring to it. We need a good term to use that Palestinians can play the racist card with for the next 100 years like Israel does.
Not sure, but on a side point I reject any "anti semitism" claim because:
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usually its just used to try to silence you
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they're the ones anti semitic because Palestinians and arabs are semitic.
So maybe actually we should re-purpose antisemitism.
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So is saying "Ukrainian should beat the Russian army" "removable", then?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]No, because that's not a direct call to violence.
Let me give you an example:
Someone posts this story:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvjj9lmq3zo
"Three killed in Ukrainian drone attack on central Russia"
"Three people have been killed and 45 injured following an attack by Ukraine on a factory in the city of Izhevsk - more than 1,000km (620 miles) from the border - Russian authorities say."
User replies "Good."
That's removable. They are applauding the deaths of three human beings.
Alternately, someone posts this story:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-drone-strike-odesa-deaths-injuries-ukraine/
"Russian drone strike on port city kills married couple, injures 17, Ukraine officials say"
"Russian drones struck the southern Ukrainian port city of Odesa overnight, killing two people and injuring at least 17, Ukrainian authorities said on Saturday."
User responds with typical pro-Russia propaganda. Ukraine are Nazis, they started it, yadda yadda.
That's also removable.
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Your TOS do not prohibit it. It only prohibit call for violence against racial, ethnic groups and any minorities
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Read the Sidebar, specifically Rule 6.
No, I know you won't. Here it is, bolding is mine:
"Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time."
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To be honest I had never heard of Bob Vylan before, so the people screaming they should be banned (so they dont become known?) reached the opposite effect, at least for me personally.
Found their music thanks to this and I love it.
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I'll get downvoted for this but what im about to say is an undeniable fact.
Chanting death for anyone is inciting violence and murder, UK governments and police can't be allowing that, especially as there is no death penalty.Yes I know, the IDF incite violence and murder, but does that make it OK to do in UK?
Did they say "IDF" or "IDF members/staff"? IDF isn't a person, so maybe it's more of a metaphorical death, as in dismantle the IDF.
I dunno.
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America is not only the enabler of Israel, The American government is the one pulling the strings. America is as much a Nazi state as Israel, And when they are done with the Middle East they will find someone else to exterminate. We are all in danger.
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The inhuman madness of finding the problem regarding this situation to be protestors of Israel's genocide, and not the genocide, is as absurd and abhorrent as it is overwhelming.
Let's get outraged about and strive to cancel and imprison someone who used violent language at a force that is mass-murdering children. Just surreal. What leads someone to become this fucking detached from their humanity? It's just incomprehensible.
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America is not only the enabler of Israel, The American government is the one pulling the strings. America is as much a Nazi state as Israel, And when they are done with the Middle East they will find someone else to exterminate. We are all in danger.
Not only US, Germany, France, UK, Italy, and most likely Canada, and Australia. With a genocide you don't get to stay silence, if you are not even condemning the genocide, that mean you are part of the bad guys.
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Look, I agree with their sentiment and want to commend them for using their platform for advocating an end to this genocide. The US should absolutely not be considering it in granting visas.
But, yeah, maybe don't do a chant calling for death to another country's military. Don't make it so easy for them. Make them ban you for simply saying "free Palestine". Don't let them say it's because you made threats of violence. Bring the majority with you, don't push them away.
This kind of reasoning immediately makes me think of MLK's famous quote:
the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action
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I'll get downvoted for this but what im about to say is an undeniable fact.
Chanting death for anyone is inciting violence and murder, UK governments and police can't be allowing that, especially as there is no death penalty.Yes I know, the IDF incite violence and murder, but does that make it OK to do in UK?
It may not be legally ok, but it is definitely morally ok to incite (and perform) violence against a genocidal force.
Crime is only legal if there's a war. Or if you're a cop. Or are rich and influential.
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No, because that's not a direct call to violence.
Let me give you an example:
Someone posts this story:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvjj9lmq3zo
"Three killed in Ukrainian drone attack on central Russia"
"Three people have been killed and 45 injured following an attack by Ukraine on a factory in the city of Izhevsk - more than 1,000km (620 miles) from the border - Russian authorities say."
User replies "Good."
That's removable. They are applauding the deaths of three human beings.
Alternately, someone posts this story:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-drone-strike-odesa-deaths-injuries-ukraine/
"Russian drone strike on port city kills married couple, injures 17, Ukraine officials say"
"Russian drones struck the southern Ukrainian port city of Odesa overnight, killing two people and injuring at least 17, Ukrainian authorities said on Saturday."
User responds with typical pro-Russia propaganda. Ukraine are Nazis, they started it, yadda yadda.
That's also removable.
In what world is suggesting one army should attack another army not a "call to violence"?
Your rulings are just complete nonsense. There's no consistency. You're just applying it based on your own whims. One of which seems, based on how you're applying it, to be "genocide is ok when it's done to brown people".
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You were warned, this is now a temp ban. Continuing to be an asshole will earn a permanent ban.
Jesus fucking christ you're bad at your job. Tell me, how is
Death to Israeli apartheid
A call to violence? It's pretty explicitly a call to end violence.
How is
Death to the institutions that uphold the Israeli Apartheid
? It's pretty obviously a criticism of an institution, and not a call to violence towards people.
The same is true of
Death to the institutions that uphold the occupation, the disposession and the genocide of Palestinians. Death to the structures that maim the humanity of both the colonizers and the colonized
Stop defending genocide you absolute fucking maniac.
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Jesus fucking christ you're bad at your job. Tell me, how is
Death to Israeli apartheid
A call to violence? It's pretty explicitly a call to end violence.
How is
Death to the institutions that uphold the Israeli Apartheid
? It's pretty obviously a criticism of an institution, and not a call to violence towards people.
The same is true of
Death to the institutions that uphold the occupation, the disposession and the genocide of Palestinians. Death to the structures that maim the humanity of both the colonizers and the colonized
Stop defending genocide you absolute fucking maniac.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Oh, I am not defending genocide. That has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I'm defending the rules of this community, which you're ALSO violating. Rule 6.
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In what world is suggesting one army should attack another army not a "call to violence"?
Your rulings are just complete nonsense. There's no consistency. You're just applying it based on your own whims. One of which seems, based on how you're applying it, to be "genocide is ok when it's done to brown people".
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Again, nothing to do with genocide or anything outside the group. If you come here suggesting people deserve to be killed, you're not going to find receptive moderation.
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