why are website language switchers in the current language?
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I think his point was that they are using different alphabets, and therefore can't be sorted "alphabetically"... there's no N or J in 日本語. In order to sort alphabetically, we would have to pick an alphabet, which will in some cases contradict the alphabet of the language's native speakers.
Haha, to avoid exactly this conundrum we prefixed languages with their iso code in a dropdown. So DE - Deutsch or EN - English.
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Which flag do we use for English?
I won't allow the stars and stripes
I have seen at least one site where they used the English flag. Luckily I have watched the European Cup a few times and could recognize it.
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Valid comment to some degree, but putting language options in the selected language is always dumber than providing them in the only world language.
Nobody's arguing that it's the right way to do it, we're just saying that breaking out words like "dumb" after the fact from the comfort of our keyboards, over problems that aren't necessarily obvious at development time if you've not had i18n training, is kind of harsh.
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Which flag do we use for English?
I won't allow the stars and stripes
Zimbabwe obviously
ah fuck -
Nobody's arguing that it's the right way to do it, we're just saying that breaking out words like "dumb" after the fact from the comfort of our keyboards, over problems that aren't necessarily obvious at development time if you've not had i18n training, is kind of harsh.
The only thing I know about i18n is that it is an annoying shitload of language installer packages for both firefox and libreoffice ^^
That said, however, how you need training for a localization package to provide a language menu(!) - not the translations, mind you - in English, is beyond me. I can't follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
There's no reason to not hardcode (in English) a language selection menu, and then display the list of available site languages (and these should be a country flag with the name of language next to it in what may be the language itself) -
Best answer up to this point
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Which flag do we use for English?
I won't allow the stars and stripes
Every time I make a tool like this, I try to wind up any Americans in the company by putting the US flag as
English (simplified)and the Union Jack asEnglishIt's a fun back and forth we have switching it between the two (inevitably someone makes a PR to put it back, and we go on)
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Out of curiosity, would you put Deutsch before or after 日本語?
Since we're using Unicode we sort by first on left to right or last letter on right to left languages by their code point
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Haha, to avoid exactly this conundrum we prefixed languages with their iso code in a dropdown. So DE - Deutsch or EN - English.
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Ive had multiple situations on websites or in games where i accidentally switched the language to like- japanese or something and then had to fumble around trying to switch it back. On websites at least you can translate to find the right option but i recently installed a game on my steamdeck and the input was all screwed up, and while trying to fix it i accidentally switched the language and then navigated away from the menu. Trying to get back to the right setting with broken input and not understanding anything wasnt fun.
The most recent update to Libre Office reset my UI language to one I don't know well enough to recognise. I uninstalled and reinstalled it.
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My Pixel started giving me distances in miles once because I had the system language to English. I needed to change it to English (German) to show me meters. I don't know if they reverted that but at this point I am too afraid to change it.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]My pixel set to Australian English works fine in metric. I presume you chose British English where they use miles rather than kilometres, of course that works for me as I also want Australian spellings
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Which flag do we use for English?
I won't allow the stars and stripes
obviously. -
the last one piss me off so much, especially when they redirect you and you don't have anyway to load the English version...
Even worse when a version is actually different. I had to check the US prices in a store once, it decided "nah mate, your IP's not American, clearly you're a bloody idiot, here's your native version" and even when I manually changed the url to US English, as they did languages based on part of the path, it still decided clearly I must not know what I want. I couldn't even try to infer the price, as the product didn't exist on my version of the site.
And aside from that and language pet peeves, what if you're on Holiday? Or live in an area that speaks a lot of languages close together?
As Cousin Mose said, the language is in the header, the fact that some web devs decide the IP address is clearly a better way to figure out what language you want is insane
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German dialects are still....German language, yes?
They are more different than any of the Englishes are from each other
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The only thing I know about i18n is that it is an annoying shitload of language installer packages for both firefox and libreoffice ^^
That said, however, how you need training for a localization package to provide a language menu(!) - not the translations, mind you - in English, is beyond me. I can't follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
There's no reason to not hardcode (in English) a language selection menu, and then display the list of available site languages (and these should be a country flag with the name of language next to it in what may be the language itself)wrote on last edited by [email protected]I can’t follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
The point is that it's really easy to point at stuff after the fact like it's obvious. Take for example your mention of flags; the World Wide Web Consortium recommends against their use, because countries aren't languages, and so the use of flags to represent them is potentially contentious depending on what market you're selling your product in and which flag you choose. Any screwup you make there would be really easy for some smartass to show up afterwards and say "well obviously you shouldn't use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you're selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn't need special training to know that... and while we're at it, at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren't keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag either".
Again, and I feel like I'm repeating myself here, my point isn't that you're incorrect, it's that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb is kind of a neckbeard move because every aspect of i18n has the potential to make anyone look dumb.
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They are more different than any of the Englishes are from each other
Can you show me an example of a website outside of a .DE site that offers translation into any of them?
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I can’t follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
The point is that it's really easy to point at stuff after the fact like it's obvious. Take for example your mention of flags; the World Wide Web Consortium recommends against their use, because countries aren't languages, and so the use of flags to represent them is potentially contentious depending on what market you're selling your product in and which flag you choose. Any screwup you make there would be really easy for some smartass to show up afterwards and say "well obviously you shouldn't use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you're selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn't need special training to know that... and while we're at it, at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren't keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag either".
Again, and I feel like I'm repeating myself here, my point isn't that you're incorrect, it's that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb is kind of a neckbeard move because every aspect of i18n has the potential to make anyone look dumb.
well obviously you shouldn’t use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you’re selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn’t need special training to know that…
[..]
at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren’t keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag either”fair enough, that is a good point.
Again, and I feel like I’m repeating myself here, my point isn’t that you’re incorrect, it’s that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb
No, I wasn't calling people dumb, I was calling "most web developers" morons, and I stand by that. Most web developers are morons. And the language topic at hand is just one of many symptoms of that. Way more annoying than that is that almost all websites have been fubared with stupid frameworks and interactive sites transmitting each keypress and reloading parts of the page while you are trying to use them / whatever was in your focus before. Interactive websites can be done right, but most of the time they are not, and it's the fault of stupid marketing people and crappy web developers / designers who do NOT refuse to implement shitty marketing ideas.
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I have seen at least one site where they used the English flag. Luckily I have watched the European Cup a few times and could recognize it.
Wow, the actual English flag, not the Union Jack?
I imagine that would trip up quite a few people even though there is a cheeky aspect of technical correctness to it.
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Have different locales for uk and us
And I absolutely would not be able to resist labeling these as:
- English, U
- English, No U
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Wow, the actual English flag, not the Union Jack?
I imagine that would trip up quite a few people even though there is a cheeky aspect of technical correctness to it.
Yes, the actual English flag, not the British flag.
