Can't the American people just denounce the Supreme Court?
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By definition, anything the SCOTUS rules is constitional. Typically, in the US, until a law defines or forbids something, it's legal.
In cases like Roe v. Wade, there not a direct or clear law that says "abortion is legal." It was a right to privacy that Roe leaned on, that a woman's decision to get an abortion or not was covered as a privacy issue. Which is not an altogether permanent ruling over a longer time frame and a change in justices and a new case can change how the law is interpreted. The more permanent version would be a constitutional amendment that would be harder to undo, doesnt rely on the SCOTUS to interpret nuance, and is the result of a push by the American people to change a law.
Ultimately, the way to nullify a SCOTUS ruling is to make a more clear law that says "no, actually, we want this."
No, the Constitution is constitutional. The Supreme Court does not have the authority to overturn the Constitution even if they engage in bad faith interpretations of it.
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I mean, if you get a page from Hobbes, you'll note that you're not beholden to The Constitution, but you are beholden to the People With The Big Army.
Similarly, Locke notes that governance is implicitly voluntary. It works because we choose to abide by it. But individual dissents acting erratically won't undermine the system. You need an organized countervailing force.
You need a real organized opposition government that does have the consent of the governed. It can't just be Sovereign Citizens spouting legal gibberish.
i dont think hobbes was all that hot shit tbh. don't i remember his conclusion was effectively, '...and that's why monarchy is the best form of government?" maybe some of the steps in his reasoning were flawed. for instance, the People With The Big Army changes pretty much every 4 years, or did do until relatively recently, and that peacefully. so maybe the People With The Big Army could be us, if we could only figure out how to reach into the minds of all those soldiers, and an effective message to plant. while it might seem farfetch'd, isn't that exactly what social media is and does, just for the People-Who-Currently-Have-The-Big-Army?
i only read locke's essay concerning, but my opinion is that individuals comprise any hypothetical organized countervailing force. what people need to join such movements- what I would like to see, perhaps I should just speak for myself- is other people taking the brave public first steps of actual resistance, and not merely voterocking and sloganeering.
i think we agree very much here.
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I love those skits with the peasants and swallows and this one.
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The fact that Obama didn’t fill the position that Scalia opened when he died is probably one of the biggest missed opportunities in America’s recent history
Blaming that on Obama is a real bullshit take on reality. Like it was one of the biggest stories in 2016 and hugely factored in the campaign rhetoric for every federal office. I have a hard time giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're genuinely unaware why the seat wasn't filled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrick_Garland_Supreme_Court_nomination
Everything in the link you provided says that Obama could have done a shitton more to ensure that the Senate Judiciary Committee actually did their jobs.
Instead, they played political bullshit, Obama blinked, and as a result, America is now two good shakes away from a Fascist dictatorship. The midterm elections - or America’s own “Night of the Long Knives”, which seems all the more likely due to the rhetoric surrounding Kirk’s assassination - Will cinch this future in the bag.
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Well, that would be a constitutional crisis. And its what we're heading for.
The thing is, once a case goes to the SC, its pretty much written in stone until they themselves overturn it. The Executive branch is beholden to its rulings so what they say is how the law gets handled. So if a, say, district judge makes one ruling, and the SC overtures it, the SC has the Executive branch make sure its enforced.
There aren't really any ways to remove SC justices in the law. Thats exactly why we on the left have been raising concern about these appointees for so long.
we're heading for.
It's crazy to me that people are still saying we're heading for it... Our Capitol was invaded by militaries from other states and they're now invading Chicago. The crisis is over, the civil war has already begun.
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Hahahaha
Geez, man, read a book. Or even a Wikipedia page
You're advocating rule by mob over rule of law... You know, like the French Revolution
I'll be honest man. I just don't see the people up there actually doing their job and conceding everything to trump. The separation of powers has long been corrupted and it's no longer actually doing its job.
I personally can't wait to see what comes out of America's disillusionment.
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It’s the kind of thing that’s worth doing regardless of the probability of success
I strongly disagree. What you're proposing is either a toothless protest that gets a whole lot of people arrested, assaulted, and killed. Or a militant insurgency that gets even more people killed.
I also don’t think much of the comparison between palestine and america
yeah, well, the problem is I think that not forming some sort of effective resistance constitutes complicity. i'd rather be damned for what I do than what I didn't do, personally.
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You can withdraw your consent to be ruled and state officials can press their claims.
Then the question is "Who wins?"
I would ask the good people of Palestine how that goes.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Not a fair comparison. Palestinians are holed up into ghettos, everything in or out controlled and overwhelming indiscriminate force being applied at any provokation real or constructed by the state or their paramilitary settlers.
Consent does not play into palestine's situation anymore than it did with rezidents of the warsaw ghetto.
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Because the Supreme Court and it's powers are defined in the Constitution itself, that's not possible. They are the highest court in the country.
You are absolutely allowed to criticize the highest court in the land what are you are you even trying to say here?
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Hahahaha
Geez, man, read a book. Or even a Wikipedia page
You're advocating rule by mob over rule of law... You know, like the French Revolution
I mean, the rule of law has clearly failed.
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We do need a French solution to the billionaire problem.
Kill unrelated people and let them buy national property for pennies on the dollar?
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I constantly see that the current US Supreme Court makes inconstitucional rulings like for example, allowing racial profiling.
For what little I've gathered due to separation of powers. The supreme court is just a designated authority. Why hasn't there been any movement that just aims to de-legitimize the current supreme Court?
Why can't a judge say "I denounce the Supreme courts authority for their failing to uphold the spirit of the law and now I shall follow this other courts rulings"?
They're part of the totally optional "checks and balances" we've depended on for 250 years or so. The Founders never thought the solution would become part of the problem, so there's a limited number of options available. Impeachment is one, but the other part of the checks and balances is Congress, which has also become part of the problem.
Depending on voluntary compliance was a noble idea in the 1700s, but it should have been codified in the federal regulations.
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Not a fair comparison. Palestinians are holed up into ghettos, everything in or out controlled and overwhelming indiscriminate force being applied at any provokation real or constructed by the state or their paramilitary settlers.
Consent does not play into palestine's situation anymore than it did with rezidents of the warsaw ghetto.
Palestinians are holed up into ghettos, everything in or out controlled and overwhelming indiscriminate force being applied at any provokation real or constructed by the state or their paramilitary settlers.
They're farther down the rabbit hole than we are. But we're all moving in the same direction.
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yeah, well, the problem is I think that not forming some sort of effective resistance constitutes complicity. i'd rather be damned for what I do than what I didn't do, personally.
I think that not forming some sort of effective resistance constitutes complicity
To some degree, sure. But then you might as well say the same of Ukrainians living in occupied Russian territory. "Oh, you should have just fought harder" is more a cavalier one-liner than a political perspective.
I think we're witnessing a certain amount of survivorship bias. The folks who are "complicit" are often just the people remaining after rebellious groups were quashed or driven away.
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SCOTUS can be impeached. Unclear who would run the trial if you're impeaching Roberts though.
Thomas, Alito, Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Barrett all need to be though.
Only one Supreme Court justice has been impeached, and even then they weren't removed from office. You would need to have a judge do horrific things to get removed from office.
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I think that not forming some sort of effective resistance constitutes complicity
To some degree, sure. But then you might as well say the same of Ukrainians living in occupied Russian territory. "Oh, you should have just fought harder" is more a cavalier one-liner than a political perspective.
I think we're witnessing a certain amount of survivorship bias. The folks who are "complicit" are often just the people remaining after rebellious groups were quashed or driven away.
“Oh, you should have just fought harder” is more a cavalier one-liner than a political perspective.
that's a hard point i'll give you that one, that's a stumper. it's a bit of a caricature, but it's also a reasonable reflection of my position. i really do think people need to stand up and fight but i'll be goddamned if I know what that even begins to look like here, let alone how to tell people to start laying down their lives for a cause.
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the constitution is a piece of paper that endorses slavery. it's not sacred. we're not beholden to it.
The Supreme Court very much defines how our laws work and we are beholden to it.
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The Supreme Court very much defines how our laws work and we are beholden to it.
I strongly disagree.
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I constantly see that the current US Supreme Court makes inconstitucional rulings like for example, allowing racial profiling.
For what little I've gathered due to separation of powers. The supreme court is just a designated authority. Why hasn't there been any movement that just aims to de-legitimize the current supreme Court?
Why can't a judge say "I denounce the Supreme courts authority for their failing to uphold the spirit of the law and now I shall follow this other courts rulings"?
wrote last edited by [email protected]The problem is the difficulty is intentional.
Part of the system of checks and balances is the Supreme Court is appointed for life so should be above the constant swing of politics or popular opinion.
In theory even today’s right wing court is ok (after four years) because they will remain regardless of what party is in power or clown is in the White House. It’ll be interesting to see what they do when politics swing back to sanity, however a non-fascist party resident won’t stretch the legal boundaries so maybe is irrelevant.
Given that positions on the court open up rarely and years apart, it generally stays relatively balanced. However this time around a combination of bad timing and political maneuvering made today’s court more partisan than ever. Violating the norm of requiring that they be competent means they no longer follow existing law or legal precepts
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Everything in the link you provided says that Obama could have done a shitton more to ensure that the Senate Judiciary Committee actually did their jobs.
Instead, they played political bullshit, Obama blinked, and as a result, America is now two good shakes away from a Fascist dictatorship. The midterm elections - or America’s own “Night of the Long Knives”, which seems all the more likely due to the rhetoric surrounding Kirk’s assassination - Will cinch this future in the bag.
Everything in the link you provided says that Obama could have done a shitton more to ensure that the Senate Judiciary Committee actually did their jobs.
Uh .. I'm seeing a whole lot of letters being written urging the senate to perform their expected duty. Not seeing anything actually proposing actions Obama could have done other than withdraw Garland and nominate someone else. But why would he have when the Republicans told Obama point blank that they would not hold any hearings or votes for any candidate and they followed through for all judicial appointments (not just SCOTUS, there were like 70 federal judges nominated in 2016, and over 100 empty seats at the end of his presidency) unless Hillary won so she couldn't nominate someone more liberal) and Garland was already a name that the Republicans had name-dropped themselves as a reasonable nominee and they stonewalled him anyways. Maybe you could direct link to the parts of the article that say what specific legal avenues Obama had available to force the Republican committee to advance the nominee and McConnell to hold a floor vote. Something that 29 Democratic state attorneys general and the 194-strong Democractic House Representatives and 44 Democratic US Senators all overlooked.
America is now two good shakes away from a Fascist dictatorship. The midterm elections - or America’s own “Night of the Long Knives”, which seems all the more likely due to the rhetoric surrounding Kirk’s assassination - Will cinch this future in the bag.
Don't disagree with you at all on any of this. But it's decidedly not Obama's fault that the SCOTUS seat went
