Signal will withdraw from Sweden if encryption-busting laws take effect
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Why willingly leave the market? Why not let them be forcibly removed? Signal is a US company. They're not doing business in Sweden. It's not like they're going to face some kind of legal consequences. Just don't comply.
What's likely is they stop offering their app on the Google Play and Apple App stores (if the bill passes into law), and then people will just sideload it, leaving it up to Sweden to geoblock their IPs.
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Signal CEO Meredith Whittaker says her company will withdraw from countries that force messaging providers to allow law enforcement officials to access encrypted user data, as Sweden continues to mull such plans.
She made the claims in an interview with Swedish media SVT Nyheter which reported the government could legislate for a so-called E2EE backdoor as soon as March 2026. It could bring all E2EE messenger apps like Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, and others into scope.
Whittaker said there is no such thing as a backdoor for E2EE "that only the good guys can access," however.
"Either it's a vulnerability that lets everyone in, or we continue to uphold strong, robust encryption and ensure the right to privacy for everyone. It either works for everyone or it's broken for everyone, and our response is the same: We would leave the market before we would comply with something that would catastrophically undermine our ability to provide private communications."
Sweden launched an investigation into its data retention and access laws in 2021, which was finalized and published in May 2023, led by Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer.
Strömmer said it was vital that law enforcement and intelligence agencies were able to access encrypted messaging content to scupper serious crime – the main argument made by the UK in pursuing its long-term ambition to break E2EE.
The inquiry made several proposals to amend existing legislation, including the recommendation that encrypted messaging must store chat data for up to two years and make it available to law enforcement officials upon request.
It would essentially mirror the existing obligation for telecoms companies to provide call and SMS data to law enforcement, as is standard across many parts of the developed world, but extend it to encrypted communications providers.
I’m guessing they don’t actually have any offices, assets or staff in Sweden.
Signal don’t block users from countries where they are banned, and in fact have options to make bypassing firewalls easier. OTOH, it’s a lot less likely that they might be arrested and extradited to Iran or China while on holiday.
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They're not dumb, they're evil.
They're dumb AND evil.
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Idiots trying to outlaw math again.
Hey, there is a long tradition of banning evil math... even Pythagoras did it... But, I guess he at least had good reasons, irrational numbers are super creepy and deserved to be banned.
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What's likely is they stop offering their app on the Google Play and Apple App stores (if the bill passes into law), and then people will just sideload it, leaving it up to Sweden to geoblock their IPs.
they stop offering their app on the Google Play and Apple App stores
...but y tho
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they stop offering their app on the Google Play and Apple App stores
...but y tho
Sorry, I just meant in Sweden only.
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Sorry, I just meant in Sweden only.
That doesn't answer my question.
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That doesn't answer my question.
Assumption is that they ask apple to remove it for swedish apple accounts. Apple does that for goverments all the time.
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Assumption is that they ask apple to remove it for swedish apple accounts. Apple does that for goverments all the time.
So let them ask. Put the onus on Apple.
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Signal CEO Meredith Whittaker says her company will withdraw from countries that force messaging providers to allow law enforcement officials to access encrypted user data, as Sweden continues to mull such plans.
She made the claims in an interview with Swedish media SVT Nyheter which reported the government could legislate for a so-called E2EE backdoor as soon as March 2026. It could bring all E2EE messenger apps like Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, and others into scope.
Whittaker said there is no such thing as a backdoor for E2EE "that only the good guys can access," however.
"Either it's a vulnerability that lets everyone in, or we continue to uphold strong, robust encryption and ensure the right to privacy for everyone. It either works for everyone or it's broken for everyone, and our response is the same: We would leave the market before we would comply with something that would catastrophically undermine our ability to provide private communications."
Sweden launched an investigation into its data retention and access laws in 2021, which was finalized and published in May 2023, led by Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer.
Strömmer said it was vital that law enforcement and intelligence agencies were able to access encrypted messaging content to scupper serious crime – the main argument made by the UK in pursuing its long-term ambition to break E2EE.
The inquiry made several proposals to amend existing legislation, including the recommendation that encrypted messaging must store chat data for up to two years and make it available to law enforcement officials upon request.
It would essentially mirror the existing obligation for telecoms companies to provide call and SMS data to law enforcement, as is standard across many parts of the developed world, but extend it to encrypted communications providers.
If people can have the right to private communication, and that privilege being extended to criminals as well, surely that is worth it.
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Hey, there is a long tradition of banning evil math... even Pythagoras did it... But, I guess he at least had good reasons, irrational numbers are super creepy and deserved to be banned.
To be pedantic, AFAIK there's no evidence Pythagoras himself had anything to do with the censure of the discovery of irrational numbers. The common story has to do with his later followers, and could well be more fiction than fact in any case.
Talking about creepy numbers, the ones that always fucked with me are uncomputable numbers. That shit's wack, yo
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If people can have the right to private communication, and that privilege being extended to criminals as well, surely that is worth it.
It's not about police, it's about power not being checked by at least getting a legal order.
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Signal CEO Meredith Whittaker says her company will withdraw from countries that force messaging providers to allow law enforcement officials to access encrypted user data, as Sweden continues to mull such plans.
She made the claims in an interview with Swedish media SVT Nyheter which reported the government could legislate for a so-called E2EE backdoor as soon as March 2026. It could bring all E2EE messenger apps like Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, and others into scope.
Whittaker said there is no such thing as a backdoor for E2EE "that only the good guys can access," however.
"Either it's a vulnerability that lets everyone in, or we continue to uphold strong, robust encryption and ensure the right to privacy for everyone. It either works for everyone or it's broken for everyone, and our response is the same: We would leave the market before we would comply with something that would catastrophically undermine our ability to provide private communications."
Sweden launched an investigation into its data retention and access laws in 2021, which was finalized and published in May 2023, led by Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer.
Strömmer said it was vital that law enforcement and intelligence agencies were able to access encrypted messaging content to scupper serious crime – the main argument made by the UK in pursuing its long-term ambition to break E2EE.
The inquiry made several proposals to amend existing legislation, including the recommendation that encrypted messaging must store chat data for up to two years and make it available to law enforcement officials upon request.
It would essentially mirror the existing obligation for telecoms companies to provide call and SMS data to law enforcement, as is standard across many parts of the developed world, but extend it to encrypted communications providers.
These power hungry tyrants just can't STAND the idea of normal humans being able to communicate without their prying eyes spying on us. They claim this is for the purpose of protecting the public. This is plainly not true, as crime will occur regardless. They cannot eliminate it despite their outrageous claims, nor do they actually want to. E2EE comms will be used to plan crime sometimes. Sorry, not sorry. Privacy is worth that cost. I'll die on that hill.
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These power hungry tyrants just can't STAND the idea of normal humans being able to communicate without their prying eyes spying on us. They claim this is for the purpose of protecting the public. This is plainly not true, as crime will occur regardless. They cannot eliminate it despite their outrageous claims, nor do they actually want to. E2EE comms will be used to plan crime sometimes. Sorry, not sorry. Privacy is worth that cost. I'll die on that hill.
Encryption on Ham Radio / GMRS Radio is illegal in many jurisdictions...
If it weren't for stuff like banking and e-commerce, encryption on the internet would've probably be illegal.
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These power hungry tyrants just can't STAND the idea of normal humans being able to communicate without their prying eyes spying on us. They claim this is for the purpose of protecting the public. This is plainly not true, as crime will occur regardless. They cannot eliminate it despite their outrageous claims, nor do they actually want to. E2EE comms will be used to plan crime sometimes. Sorry, not sorry. Privacy is worth that cost. I'll die on that hill.
I'll die there right with you.
Privacy is non-negotiable for me, and I'll get violent about it if I have to. That's my line in the sand. I'll jump through hoops if I have to, but I'm not complying with laws that strip away my privacy.
In fact, I'm looking to host Tor nodes to help out. Screw this surveillance BS, I'll use cryptography if I want to.
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I wonder what other branch of mathematics they are going after next. My best guess would be topology....
Topology is wack.
Keep away from lattices tho.
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What's likely is they stop offering their app on the Google Play and Apple App stores (if the bill passes into law), and then people will just sideload it, leaving it up to Sweden to geoblock their IPs.
I already do that, but that's more because I don't have Google Play Services and the auto-updating "side loaded" app works better than the F-Droid one.
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Signal CEO Meredith Whittaker says her company will withdraw from countries that force messaging providers to allow law enforcement officials to access encrypted user data, as Sweden continues to mull such plans.
She made the claims in an interview with Swedish media SVT Nyheter which reported the government could legislate for a so-called E2EE backdoor as soon as March 2026. It could bring all E2EE messenger apps like Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, and others into scope.
Whittaker said there is no such thing as a backdoor for E2EE "that only the good guys can access," however.
"Either it's a vulnerability that lets everyone in, or we continue to uphold strong, robust encryption and ensure the right to privacy for everyone. It either works for everyone or it's broken for everyone, and our response is the same: We would leave the market before we would comply with something that would catastrophically undermine our ability to provide private communications."
Sweden launched an investigation into its data retention and access laws in 2021, which was finalized and published in May 2023, led by Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer.
Strömmer said it was vital that law enforcement and intelligence agencies were able to access encrypted messaging content to scupper serious crime – the main argument made by the UK in pursuing its long-term ambition to break E2EE.
The inquiry made several proposals to amend existing legislation, including the recommendation that encrypted messaging must store chat data for up to two years and make it available to law enforcement officials upon request.
It would essentially mirror the existing obligation for telecoms companies to provide call and SMS data to law enforcement, as is standard across many parts of the developed world, but extend it to encrypted communications providers.
Why do people keep trying to do this? The fact is, you can't beat good encryption and you can't beat the Internet.
As soon as a country outlaws an app like this, users will simply not be able to download it "officially". They'll have to set up an Internet proxy or vpn, and then download it... It may take an extra 10 minutes to install.
They can't block this... So why try?
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These power hungry tyrants just can't STAND the idea of normal humans being able to communicate without their prying eyes spying on us. They claim this is for the purpose of protecting the public. This is plainly not true, as crime will occur regardless. They cannot eliminate it despite their outrageous claims, nor do they actually want to. E2EE comms will be used to plan crime sometimes. Sorry, not sorry. Privacy is worth that cost. I'll die on that hill.
"Crime was always with us, he reasoned, and therefore, if you were going to have crime, it at least should be organised crime."
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Signal CEO Meredith Whittaker says her company will withdraw from countries that force messaging providers to allow law enforcement officials to access encrypted user data, as Sweden continues to mull such plans.
She made the claims in an interview with Swedish media SVT Nyheter which reported the government could legislate for a so-called E2EE backdoor as soon as March 2026. It could bring all E2EE messenger apps like Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, and others into scope.
Whittaker said there is no such thing as a backdoor for E2EE "that only the good guys can access," however.
"Either it's a vulnerability that lets everyone in, or we continue to uphold strong, robust encryption and ensure the right to privacy for everyone. It either works for everyone or it's broken for everyone, and our response is the same: We would leave the market before we would comply with something that would catastrophically undermine our ability to provide private communications."
Sweden launched an investigation into its data retention and access laws in 2021, which was finalized and published in May 2023, led by Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer.
Strömmer said it was vital that law enforcement and intelligence agencies were able to access encrypted messaging content to scupper serious crime – the main argument made by the UK in pursuing its long-term ambition to break E2EE.
The inquiry made several proposals to amend existing legislation, including the recommendation that encrypted messaging must store chat data for up to two years and make it available to law enforcement officials upon request.
It would essentially mirror the existing obligation for telecoms companies to provide call and SMS data to law enforcement, as is standard across many parts of the developed world, but extend it to encrypted communications providers.
The EU would be perfect if it wasn’t for the gross attempts of surveillance on the people.
