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  3. Judges Are Fed up With Lawyers Using AI That Hallucinate Court Cases

Judges Are Fed up With Lawyers Using AI That Hallucinate Court Cases

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  • R [email protected]

    Feel free to argue with them, I'm just pointing out that there's potential for misunderstandings. If you want to talk about an actual subject, you'll necessarily have to navigate them.

    M This user is from outside of this forum
    M This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #121

    You navigate them by finding out where their brain is broken and informing them of what words mean. In the ideal case some of them stop speaking incorrectly.

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    • S [email protected]

      But the explanation and Ramirez’s promise to educate himself on the use of AI wasn’t enough, and the judge chided him for not doing his research before filing. “It is abundantly clear that Mr. Ramirez did not make the requisite reasonable inquiry into the law. Had he expended even minimal effort to do so, he would have discovered that the AI-generated cases do not exist. That the AI-generated excerpts appeared valid to Mr. Ramirez does not relieve him of his duty to conduct a reasonable inquiry,” Judge Dinsmore continued, before recommending that Ramirez be sanctioned for $15,000.

      Falling victim to this a year or more after the first guy made headlines for the same is just stupidity.

      archrecord@lemm.eeA This user is from outside of this forum
      archrecord@lemm.eeA This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #122

      For the last time, people need to stop treating AI like it removes their need for research, just because it sounds like it did its research. Check the work your tools do for you, damn it.

      N 1 Reply Last reply
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      • R [email protected]

        I've had this lengthy discussion before. Some people define a lie as an untrue statement, while others additionally require intent to deceive.

        P This user is from outside of this forum
        P This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote on last edited by
        #123

        It can't just be the first statement, as that would preclude lies of omission.

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        • archrecord@lemm.eeA [email protected]

          For the last time, people need to stop treating AI like it removes their need for research, just because it sounds like it did its research. Check the work your tools do for you, damn it.

          N This user is from outside of this forum
          N This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #124

          It's Wikipedia all over again. Absolutely feel free to use the tool, e.g. Wikipedia, ChatGPT, whatever, but holy shit check the sources, my guy. This is embarrassing.

          A 1 Reply Last reply
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          • N [email protected]

            It's Wikipedia all over again. Absolutely feel free to use the tool, e.g. Wikipedia, ChatGPT, whatever, but holy shit check the sources, my guy. This is embarrassing.

            A This user is from outside of this forum
            A This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by
            #125

            The best use, for me, is asking ChatGPT to give me five (or however many) scholarly, peer-reviewed articles on a topic. Then I search for said articles by title and author name on my school library database.

            It saves me so much time compared to doing a keyword search on said same database and reading a ton of abstracts to find a few articles. I can get to actually reading them and working on my assignment way faster.

            AI is a great tool for people who use it properly.

            archrecord@lemm.eeA 1 Reply Last reply
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            • S [email protected]

              But the explanation and Ramirez’s promise to educate himself on the use of AI wasn’t enough, and the judge chided him for not doing his research before filing. “It is abundantly clear that Mr. Ramirez did not make the requisite reasonable inquiry into the law. Had he expended even minimal effort to do so, he would have discovered that the AI-generated cases do not exist. That the AI-generated excerpts appeared valid to Mr. Ramirez does not relieve him of his duty to conduct a reasonable inquiry,” Judge Dinsmore continued, before recommending that Ramirez be sanctioned for $15,000.

              Falling victim to this a year or more after the first guy made headlines for the same is just stupidity.

              G This user is from outside of this forum
              G This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote on last edited by
              #126

              Why dont more AI services cite sources? Or just as a lawyer add that to your prompt and just check if they exist? I get fake sources on OpenAI sometimes but its obvious because the links are dead.

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              • A [email protected]

                The best use, for me, is asking ChatGPT to give me five (or however many) scholarly, peer-reviewed articles on a topic. Then I search for said articles by title and author name on my school library database.

                It saves me so much time compared to doing a keyword search on said same database and reading a ton of abstracts to find a few articles. I can get to actually reading them and working on my assignment way faster.

                AI is a great tool for people who use it properly.

                archrecord@lemm.eeA This user is from outside of this forum
                archrecord@lemm.eeA This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote on last edited by
                #127

                I personally just like using it for rewording/re-explaining a topic that I don't quite get. LLMs may not be the best at actually providing factual evidence themselves, but they can be damn good at reformatting any given content/context you give it into almost any format you want.

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                • S [email protected]

                  It's actually often easier to check an answer than coming up with an answer. Finding the square root of 66564 by hand isn't easy, but checking if the answer is 257 is simple enough.

                  So, in principle, if the AI is better at guessing an answer than we are, it might still be useful. But it depends on the cost of guessing and the cost of checking.

                  A This user is from outside of this forum
                  A This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #128

                  Now if only an AI could actually find the square root of anything. They can't do math, at least the models I've tried. I am aware that if they could do math, it would be a big deal, but really if it can't analyze the actual content in my work files then it's useless to me. It's good at finding mathematical answers by putting in what you expect to get from 120 X 15.5, but doesn't actually know the difference between 1860 and a picture of Judy Hopps in a revealing swimsuit, and would be equally satisfied giving you one as the other.

                  S 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • A [email protected]

                    LLMs are incapable of helping.
                    If he cannot find time to construct his own legal briefs, maybe he should use part of his money to hire an AGI (otherwise known as a human) to help him.

                    theneverfox@pawb.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                    theneverfox@pawb.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #129

                    That's not true at all, they're super helpful. I use them almost every day, they save me an insane amount of time and energy

                    What I don't do is rely on it. I'm the developer, I know what's going on, it has the memory of a goldfish. It also spits out code near instantly... Which I then read through and usually fix

                    But it makes less mistakes than I do writing dumb repetitive code. It will, 95% of the time, correctly tell me something in half the time it would take me to look it up, if not less

                    It's nowhere close to a worker replacement, but it's damn good at empowering people to do what they do

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                    • A [email protected]

                      Now if only an AI could actually find the square root of anything. They can't do math, at least the models I've tried. I am aware that if they could do math, it would be a big deal, but really if it can't analyze the actual content in my work files then it's useless to me. It's good at finding mathematical answers by putting in what you expect to get from 120 X 15.5, but doesn't actually know the difference between 1860 and a picture of Judy Hopps in a revealing swimsuit, and would be equally satisfied giving you one as the other.

                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #130

                      Well, if by AI you mean large language models, they tend to do better at language tasks than math tasks. So a better example might be that it's easier to get an LLM to write a statement for you and checking if it's correct than writing the statement from the bottom.

                      The square root was just a clearer example. In the case of OP, it might very well be easier to have an LLM propose relevant case law and then check if that case law exists and is relevant, rather than having to find it yourself from square one.

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