Proton will no longer post on Mastodon
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Proton does not use end-to-end encryption for email headers. That includes the subject lines, senders/recipients, and other potentially sensitive information.
Tuta uses E2EE for email contents AND headers.
Consider for a moment what someone with access to your contacts and subject lines would know about you. For me personally, they would know which political campaigns and causes I donate to, and when. They would know when I see various doctors, and who they are. They would know my travel dates and destinations. They would know what newsletters I read (many of which are also political). Etc.
Tuta it is then.
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Almost certainly, yes.
People on Mastodon are not happy about those statements, and called Proton out on it relentlessly with every post Proton made. This is Proton running away with their tail between their legs, back to platforms where they have more control and/or are already full of right-wing nutjobs.
If anyone's looking for secure email, look at tuta.com instead. The email service is very similar in terms of UX and offers better encryption. They don't offer the rest of Proton's suite, but...maybe that's a good thing? I mean, do you want to get locked into an ecosystem?
Tuta is really good. The push notifications work perfectly without delay on de-googled devices. top.
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I liked electrons and neutrons better anyways....
Please no, no more shitty electron apps
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Me too, but I just can't stand Tuta UX (unless it got better recently).
It's a little better, but still not as clean as Proton. The mobile menus really suck.
But they're good enough, so I use them.
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The only thing Proton has going for it that Tuta does not is the
.onionsite and even that constantly leaks to clearweb so fuck'em.There are a few other things I miss from Proton:
- Proton Bridge
- nicer interface
- better search
Yet I'm a paying Tuta customer now instead of a paying Proton customer.
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And he didn't even need to say anything at all which is the ridiculous thing lost in all this. It was amateur hour showing a huge lack of foresight you'd expect a CEO to have when it comes to things as simple as PR.
Regardless of what we think of his comments, it's good that he is vocal about his opinions. Makes him seem like a person than some faceless CEO they says nothing.
He just got spicy with this 1 post and it hasn't worked out for him and now the open source community Proton is a part of hate him. There is so much hate that they are leaving Mastodon which is a huge shame
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No, he literally STARTED by stating what the republicans used to be about and then added a wildly inaccurate statement about what the republicans are about now.
But Trump was the first president (since the US tried to break up Microsoft) to seriously start thinking about fighting big tech. Obviously for dumb reasons (they hurt his feelings) but still, I don't think that statement is inaccurate. However, it is true he isn't the first politician to say something against big tech. Even so, he was in a position of power to potentially do something about it (even if he never did and likely won't now given how much they are bending the knee)
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Lol, here comes the drama. And I say that as a person on the opposite spectrum of Trump.
Your words, they smell of lazy deceit.
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Regardless of what we think of his comments, it's good that he is vocal about his opinions. Makes him seem like a person than some faceless CEO they says nothing.
He just got spicy with this 1 post and it hasn't worked out for him and now the open source community Proton is a part of hate him. There is so much hate that they are leaving Mastodon which is a huge shame
Just like Musk back in 2018 could be a face dropping moment enough to cast doubt, so for consumers a good thing to know if the person in charge is potentially problematic enough to cast doubt in usage of the product over alternatives.
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Proton: “We’re consolidating our social media presence due to limited resources and no longer posting on Mastodon. Follow us on Reddit for the latest updates”
Fuck Proton.
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Your words, they smell of lazy deceit.
Just FYI, I'm not a Proton supporter (I find the way overrated), nor an American citizen, nor a MAGA supporter (quite the opposite, actually). I just use common sense. If you're so stupid to believe otherwise it's exclusively your problem. Keep crying and jumping from service to service for every little shit. Have fun.
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Proton: “We’re consolidating our social media presence due to limited resources and no longer posting on Mastodon. Follow us on Reddit for the latest updates”
Since I have found it historically hard to engage on this (broader) subject around here, just yesterday I put together my own thoughts at https://loudwhisper.me/blog/proton-fediverse-burnout/
Personally, I did not see the value of their Mastodon presence, it was write only marketing communication, no engagement with the community anyway. That happened only ever on Reddit, which I think is going to continue being the case.
They push the same info via email newsletter, if someone really wants that stuff.
Either way, the post above covers my take on the whole drama, not just this last small chapter.
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Proton: “We’re consolidating our social media presence due to limited resources and no longer posting on Mastodon. Follow us on Reddit for the latest updates”
"Privacy is important, so you can follow our latest updates exclusively on the platforms that don't give a shit about privacy"
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I've been using Tuta Mail for a few years now. No complaints. Most of the features you would expect. Lack of IMAP support is kinda disappointing but survivable. Their email security is very strong though — they encrypt every part of your email, including subject
(some providers only encrypt the body). They're also rolling out post-quantum encryption of email data at rest, which tickles my crypto nerd side.They've still a loong way to go to match Proton's product suite though, as they only offer Email, Contacts and Calendar for now. They're working on Drive storage next, which is the main reason I currently use Proton.
Tuta is great, I will start from that. But they encrypt the subject line, in addition to the body afaik. It is technically impossible to encrypt "every part of the email" because that would break delivery (e.g., metadata such as recipient or timestamps).
This also has the cost of a nonstandard protocol (not plain PGP), with all that implies in terms of compatibility, maintenance needs etc.
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Proton can now officially go fuck themselves.
First, their CEO supports Trump. Then this, ditching Mastodon in favour of nazi-Twitter. Proton is not safe anymore and people need to migrate away ASAP.
Was it ever? I ditched them years ago when they tried to gaslight people that e2ee in javascript in browser is secure.
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Proton: “We’re consolidating our social media presence due to limited resources and no longer posting on Mastodon. Follow us on Reddit for the latest updates”
due to limited resources
Either:
- We have lost our password
- Our C and V keys are broken and we can not copy paste our social media messages anymore
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They’ve still a loong way to go to match Proton’s product suite though, as they only offer Email, Contacts and Calendar for now
honestly that's a plus for me, I'd rather they focus on a small set of products and do really well with them. before I left Proton I was wary of their scope creep, and then the crypto wallet shit
Funny that the crypto wallet also upset people in the space who like crypto. Because crypto, IF USED CORRECTLY, can be a privacy tool (because it is the main way to pay online that can be utilized without KYC). However, such people got upset not just with Proton broadening their product scope for no reason, but also the fact that Monero was not even considered, despite it having built-in privacy protections unlike Bitcoin, and overall being agreed on as today's "digital cash".
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"Privacy is important, so you can follow our latest updates exclusively on the platforms that don't give a shit about privacy"
TBF, they push the same content via their email newsletter.
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Proton does not use end-to-end encryption for email headers. That includes the subject lines, senders/recipients, and other potentially sensitive information.
Tuta uses E2EE for email contents AND headers.
Consider for a moment what someone with access to your contacts and subject lines would know about you. For me personally, they would know which political campaigns and causes I donate to, and when. They would know when I see various doctors, and who they are. They would know my travel dates and destinations. They would know what newsletters I read (many of which are also political). Etc.
Sender and recipient can't be encrypted e2e. How would the server know to whom deliver the email if those are encrypted and not visible to it?
AFAIK tuta encryption extends to the subject line only.
Still a nice addition, don't get me wrong, but I believe you misunderstood something.
From their own doc:
The only unencrypted data are mail addresses of users as well as senders and recipients of emails.
Contacts and everything else is encrypted similarly in all "secure email" providers, including Proton.
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Tuta is great, I will start from that. But they encrypt the subject line, in addition to the body afaik. It is technically impossible to encrypt "every part of the email" because that would break delivery (e.g., metadata such as recipient or timestamps).
This also has the cost of a nonstandard protocol (not plain PGP), with all that implies in terms of compatibility, maintenance needs etc.
That's a fair point about the portability of their protocol. And yeah, you're right that they don't encrypt everything. I'd meant to say "they encrypt everything you can encrypt without making the email undeliverable" but my fingers decided to type something else.
