So how do you feel about the whole Charlie Kirk divide?
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We need people that will safeguard certain lines that may not be crossed.
Exactly.
"We finally won."
What did it cost?
"Our humanity"
If people are so willing to cross those lines, what are we even doing or trying to uphold?
Thanks, I love it.
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wrote last edited by [email protected]
Glad this article includes context. It'll help my research. Thank you.
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I'm not American, so this is an outside perspective I guess. I had never heard of Charlie Kirk before he was shot, and it's been interesting watching it all play out. Ring wing leap to assuming it was a leftist attack, with a huge amount of violent rhetoric; suspect arrested & turns out to be from conservative background; trickle of suggestions he might be further to the right of Kirk.
I've learned a new word: Groyper.
Meanwhile in the UK we've got a kind of fascism-lite going on, with a "socialist" party in charge that's leaning to the right of Thatcher in order to attract the votes of bigots. There's a massive right-wing rally going on in London right now, with a couple of anti-fascist, anti-racist counter protests as well. https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2025/sep/13/aerial-footage-shows-scale-of-unite-the-kingdom-rally-video
The shooter is confirmed to be “far left”, quit the bullshit.
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A self-elected mouthpiece that thrives on spreading hatred that has cause immerse damage and suffering for innocent people is shot by one of his own people. He died by consequence of the violence he was promoting against others.
The only ones I sympathise with are his children because they didn't choose their parents and they will have his legacy on their shoulders. His wife and his friends and colleagues and his followers can go fuck themselves ass to eye with a spork.
shot by one of his own people
Charlie Kirk was a radical far left supporter of “antifa”?
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I'm not divided. This is a republican on Republican crime. Fuck them, let them eat themselves for all I care.
Since when are radicalized far left antifa supporters “republicans”?
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So what're your thoughts now we know it was a far right extremist aka goyper who shot CK for not being far enough to the right?
Oh that's right all you snivelling right wing lunatics crawled back under your rocks.
You guys need to stop spreading this bullshit. It was a young guy from a normal, good family who was radicalised by the far left. He was not far right or even middle.
You’re lying through your teeth to try and take responsibility off people exactly like yourself.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
Obviously the ideal amount of political violence should be zero. If any other option exists, I think those must be taken first.
But sometimes the status quo is violence, and letting the status quo continue doing violence will overtime do more harm than one act of political violence. So mathematically, there must be some point where some violence is worth the cost of less harm in the future.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
I might have felt sympathy, but I'm too busy caring for people that he himself hurt. They deserve my attention more.
You don't run over a crowd of people, crash your car, and then get to lament that there are people in front of you at the emergency room.
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Since when are radicalized far left antifa supporters “republicans”?
You poor poor summer child who said he is far left? You don't have to be a person on the left to hate fascist. In America we had a tradition of killing fascist it didn't matter what side you were on, but I guess you forgot that.
The little groyper killed another republican. You are eating your own while we stare at you shaking our head. Oh well.
Republicans on Republican crime is interesting to watch. Let me know when a "lefty" kills another "lefty".
Lol.
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The shooter is confirmed to be “far left”, quit the bullshit.
God damn. You're insufferable.
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You poor poor summer child who said he is far left? You don't have to be a person on the left to hate fascist. In America we had a tradition of killing fascist it didn't matter what side you were on, but I guess you forgot that.
The little groyper killed another republican. You are eating your own while we stare at you shaking our head. Oh well.
Republicans on Republican crime is interesting to watch. Let me know when a "lefty" kills another "lefty".
Lol.
His friends did. His parents did. Literally everything we have found out about him does.
I see “groyper” is the word-of-the-week among the far left that you all just discovered to try and pretend your side wasn’t responsible for this vile, reprehensible act. You’re all sick in the head.
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His friends did. His parents did. Literally everything we have found out about him does.
I see “groyper” is the word-of-the-week among the far left that you all just discovered to try and pretend your side wasn’t responsible for this vile, reprehensible act. You’re all sick in the head.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Lol his dad just came out showing his ties to the maga movement lol.
Maga the party of no responsibility and protectors of pedos. Lol
I wonder who will be next of maga when maga attacks. Lol
Edit: breaking news he was passionate about neo-nazi stuff.
Not all republicans are neo-nazis but all neo-nazis are republican.
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His friends did. His parents did. Literally everything we have found out about him does.
I see “groyper” is the word-of-the-week among the far left that you all just discovered to try and pretend your side wasn’t responsible for this vile, reprehensible act. You’re all sick in the head.
The statements from his friend have been retracted.
At this point, there is not enough conclusive evidence to determine the shooter's beliefs. A lot of the evidence is contradictory and keeps getting retracted and overturned.
I personally don't find the groyper narrative all that convincing, it seems like wishful thinking, but I don't think it can be entirely ruled out yet.
Those of us who are politically active been aware of the movement for years. It's absolutely not some new term.
It's not like this kind of violence is exclusive to the left. While left-wing violence is real and shouldn't be ignored, the claim that all violence is left-wing is simply not true.
The same day that Kirk was killed, a mass shooting happened in Colorado. The shooter was a neo-nazi. Charlie Kirk has been credited in at least one shooter's manifesto.
Every time a far-right guy commits a mass shooting, your side claims that the shooter is a "lone wolf". Why does this act of violence not get the same treatment?
Why is every single conservative mass shooting not related to the conservative media ecosystem?
Folks like Tucker Carlson, Libs of Tiktok, Matt Walsh, spread rhetoric far more violent than anything I've seen people on the left say in response this shooting.
People like that constantly dehumanize others. They openly call for minorities to be removed from society.
The tendencies you talk about are in no way exclusive to the left.
(To be clear, I do not condone the killing. It should not have happened. It's sad that violence has been normalized in this country to this point)
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I don't personally feel bad that he is dead. The world is probably a better place without him in it. However, I'm disturbed by how gleeful some people are about his death. It shows how callous and radicalized people have become. I know a lot of people will jump in and say it's rhe right's fault things have gotten so radicalized, but that's missing the point. Taking a life should never be easy.
I mean, sure, it's mostly edgy people talking tough online. Give them Charlie Kirk in a dark alleyway and hand them a gun and 99% of them wouldn't pull the trigger. But that social media environment does produce killers, and the kind of people it pushes over the edge tend to not be very stable and their actions tend to be pretty horrific. Probably the most famous Lemmy user to date is the man who bombed the fertility clinic. Let's hope it stays that way.
I agree. This sort of violence should not be normalized.
I understand why some people feel the way they do, but I don't think we want to set a precedent that murdering someone is fine, as long as you think their political actions are distasteful.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
if/when someonw irl asks me about this piece of shit...I like to respond "...did you know about this guy at all, before he got shot?".....no? so...why the fuck do you suddenly care now, you might be in a bubble dude"
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I don’t support murder, but when people who do call for it like checks notes Charlie Kirk get murdered, I’ll enjoy the irony.
There are some people who the world would be better off without. Can anyone honestly say the US would be a worse place now if Trump had been killed instead of “wounded” at his own shooting?
wrote last edited by [email protected]sure is a waste of a bullet though, i could think of dozen more impactful people to off...like...just random example, did you know <10 individuals provide over 60% of AIPAC's annual funding year-to-year?
and those 10 have a lot of crossover throughout the entire alt-right propaganda sphere, you remove those 10 people and "conservative america" is silenced overnight, as their spokesmens checks stop clearing
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Yes it is indicative, it would be interesting to see the parallels from this age of interconnectedness and how things progressed to this point versus, say, leading up to the civil war or something.
Ray Dalio has prescient words on this. Increasing political violence often precedes the downfall of a country. Couple that with the economic problems and drastic inequality in the US today, and I think we’re on the precipice of something truly awful.
If Donald Trump ends up trying to take a 3rd term, we are done as a country. I will be looking for the exits.
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Rightists have spent decades building and nurturing a fascist culture. Fascism has well defined and recognizable traits, including machismo, action for actions sake, weapon obsession, derision of pacifism and diversity and science, dying a hero, and demonizing out groups and dissenters.
Violence is the end result. They use fear of violence to seize control, while stoking and promoting violence among their followers, which results in perpetuation of real violence, which creates an escalating cycle of violence. There is a reason that almost all shooters are radicalized rightists. It is because their culture has carefully groomed those traits into them.
On the flip side, leftist violence erupts only when people are pushed far beyond their breaking point. We are not there yet, but the rightists have escalated the cycle of violence to levels where we are getting close.
Charlie Kirk was a victim of his own rhetoric, his own political violence, and his own stochastic terrorism. I weep for the world, because his hateful, dangerous, violent ideals will live long into the future even without him. And with a false martyrdom narrative now in place, many other hateful, violent terrorists will spring up to further accelerate the cycle of violence, fascism, and oppression.
We are all fucked. Not just the US, the world.
I think you nailed it, dude. Very well written and thought out.
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Interesting way to put. I might steal some of it. However, I wanted to ask you: what if these people know EXACTLY what they are doing. People like Alex Jones and Roe Rogan know exactly that they are echoing the right wing. They are basically right-wing influencers, and they do it because there's someone out there funding them.
wrote last edited by [email protected]To give a honest response, I don't know
What I struggle with is the balance between accountability and understanding. Viktor Frankl wrote in Man’s Search for Meaning that even in the concentration camps, where survival seemed to justify anything, people still chose differently. Some prisoners became cruel enforcers, punishing their own, while others found ways to remain kind and merciful. Frankl’s point was that even in the darkest times, we still hold the freedom to choose how we respond.
That leaves me questioning: how much of “bad” behavior is survival instinct, habit, or circumstance, and how much is chosen? We can’t excuse harm, but we also can’t ignore the human story behind it. Maybe the answer lies in holding people accountable while still leaving space for them to change?
If anything seems consistent it's that ignorance breeds fear and hate. Understanding is how we overcome ignorance. Doesn't always work out that people can see eye to eye, but that does seem to be the correct path before violence.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
wrote last edited by [email protected]Feral Violent MAGA shooting their own guys is hilarious, I hope they turn on king pedo Marie Antoinette soon and tear him limb from limb in his 200 million dollar ballroom. That’s best case scenario. As far as decent people take care of yourselves, your families and your community. Get armed, start a victory garden/ community garden , get backyard chickens if possible, learn to fix things, have at least 30 days of supplies and prepare for the worst. I hope to see the entire Trump cabinet going through a Nuremberg trial. IF we get out of this without 70 million deaths like ww2 we’d be lucky. fight against facism however you can. shun maga for the rest of their lives never forget they’re irredeemable nazis.
