So how do you feel about the whole Charlie Kirk divide?
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I don’t support murder, but when people who do call for it like checks notes Charlie Kirk get murdered, I’ll enjoy the irony.
There are some people who the world would be better off without. Can anyone honestly say the US would be a worse place now if Trump had been killed instead of “wounded” at his own shooting?
wrote last edited by [email protected]sure is a waste of a bullet though, i could think of dozen more impactful people to off...like...just random example, did you know <10 individuals provide over 60% of AIPAC's annual funding year-to-year?
and those 10 have a lot of crossover throughout the entire alt-right propaganda sphere, you remove those 10 people and "conservative america" is silenced overnight, as their spokesmens checks stop clearing
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Yes it is indicative, it would be interesting to see the parallels from this age of interconnectedness and how things progressed to this point versus, say, leading up to the civil war or something.
Ray Dalio has prescient words on this. Increasing political violence often precedes the downfall of a country. Couple that with the economic problems and drastic inequality in the US today, and I think we’re on the precipice of something truly awful.
If Donald Trump ends up trying to take a 3rd term, we are done as a country. I will be looking for the exits.
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Rightists have spent decades building and nurturing a fascist culture. Fascism has well defined and recognizable traits, including machismo, action for actions sake, weapon obsession, derision of pacifism and diversity and science, dying a hero, and demonizing out groups and dissenters.
Violence is the end result. They use fear of violence to seize control, while stoking and promoting violence among their followers, which results in perpetuation of real violence, which creates an escalating cycle of violence. There is a reason that almost all shooters are radicalized rightists. It is because their culture has carefully groomed those traits into them.
On the flip side, leftist violence erupts only when people are pushed far beyond their breaking point. We are not there yet, but the rightists have escalated the cycle of violence to levels where we are getting close.
Charlie Kirk was a victim of his own rhetoric, his own political violence, and his own stochastic terrorism. I weep for the world, because his hateful, dangerous, violent ideals will live long into the future even without him. And with a false martyrdom narrative now in place, many other hateful, violent terrorists will spring up to further accelerate the cycle of violence, fascism, and oppression.
We are all fucked. Not just the US, the world.
I think you nailed it, dude. Very well written and thought out.
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Interesting way to put. I might steal some of it. However, I wanted to ask you: what if these people know EXACTLY what they are doing. People like Alex Jones and Roe Rogan know exactly that they are echoing the right wing. They are basically right-wing influencers, and they do it because there's someone out there funding them.
wrote last edited by [email protected]To give a honest response, I don't know
What I struggle with is the balance between accountability and understanding. Viktor Frankl wrote in Man’s Search for Meaning that even in the concentration camps, where survival seemed to justify anything, people still chose differently. Some prisoners became cruel enforcers, punishing their own, while others found ways to remain kind and merciful. Frankl’s point was that even in the darkest times, we still hold the freedom to choose how we respond.
That leaves me questioning: how much of “bad” behavior is survival instinct, habit, or circumstance, and how much is chosen? We can’t excuse harm, but we also can’t ignore the human story behind it. Maybe the answer lies in holding people accountable while still leaving space for them to change?
If anything seems consistent it's that ignorance breeds fear and hate. Understanding is how we overcome ignorance. Doesn't always work out that people can see eye to eye, but that does seem to be the correct path before violence.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
wrote last edited by [email protected]Feral Violent MAGA shooting their own guys is hilarious, I hope they turn on king pedo Marie Antoinette soon and tear him limb from limb in his 200 million dollar ballroom. That’s best case scenario. As far as decent people take care of yourselves, your families and your community. Get armed, start a victory garden/ community garden , get backyard chickens if possible, learn to fix things, have at least 30 days of supplies and prepare for the worst. I hope to see the entire Trump cabinet going through a Nuremberg trial. IF we get out of this without 70 million deaths like ww2 we’d be lucky. fight against facism however you can. shun maga for the rest of their lives never forget they’re irredeemable nazis.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
wrote last edited by [email protected]I hold the following opinions
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political violence is probably a bad idea. this is for multiple reasons, one of which being that it usually doesn't create the intended effects.
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charlie kirk might have been the worst piece of shit commentator of that era. i'm glad he shut the fuck up.
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there are a lot of political commentators like him. the benefit of having one less of them is overshadowed by the detriment of the reaction to a political assassination.
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his family is the absolute least of my concerns. i don't think about them at all.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
This was a prime example of the phrase: "No humans involved".
Nazis killing other Nazis is ALWAYS a good thing, something to be celebrated joyfully by all rational people in the world. And doing it without any collateral damage is a huge bonus.
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I hold the following opinions
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political violence is probably a bad idea. this is for multiple reasons, one of which being that it usually doesn't create the intended effects.
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charlie kirk might have been the worst piece of shit commentator of that era. i'm glad he shut the fuck up.
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there are a lot of political commentators like him. the benefit of having one less of them is overshadowed by the detriment of the reaction to a political assassination.
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his family is the absolute least of my concerns. i don't think about them at all.
Fantastic take. No notes.
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So what're your thoughts now we know it was a far right extremist aka goyper who shot CK for not being far enough to the right?
Oh that's right all you snivelling right wing lunatics crawled back under your rocks.
He wasn't he was the only left leaning person in his family and felt isolated and resentful of that. 4ch also found his cross dressing photos of him with full makeup and cat ears
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
just because hes dead doesnt change what he said when he was alive politcal violence is bad but he wasnt a saint
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
You cannot take off the political hat when a side has decided to discard human rights. That side is WRONG. There can be no discussion on that. Every dispute entertained on that subject is another person dead, their life extinguished. Do YOU accept blame for the death of a person run over by bureaucracy, by capitalism, by systematic oppression? If the answer is no, then you have no right to even entertain a system that allows it.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
there is no divide. it's manufactured outrage to consolidate conservatives behind a singular movement and target their wrath at anything not on their side.
Kirk was a fascist spreading ideological bigot. He didn't deserve to die but nobody should be mourning his death but those who were closest to him.
trust no one who uses the death of a man to propel themselves forward, for they have no honor or morals that direct them and you will soon find yourself a target for their next opportunity.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
You’re just trying to rile people up.
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You cannot take off the political hat when a side has decided to discard human rights. That side is WRONG. There can be no discussion on that. Every dispute entertained on that subject is another person dead, their life extinguished. Do YOU accept blame for the death of a person run over by bureaucracy, by capitalism, by systematic oppression? If the answer is no, then you have no right to even entertain a system that allows it.
Sure I can, I do it all the time
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
Political violence is always the last, worst option. Sometimes it's the only option but that wasn't the case here.
Kirk was a pretty awful person, who profited from spreading hatred. He didn't just have an opinion, he had an agenda.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
Couldn't.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
wrote last edited by [email protected]I'm with the majority's utiliatarian ethics here: political assassinations are bad but dead nazi is the best kind of nazi. So overall event is net negative for humanity but not all parts of the sum are negatives if that makes sense.
So I did celebrate the obituary but I'm aware this is likely bad for society as a whole.
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The statements from his friend have been retracted.
At this point, there is not enough conclusive evidence to determine the shooter's beliefs. A lot of the evidence is contradictory and keeps getting retracted and overturned.
I personally don't find the groyper narrative all that convincing, it seems like wishful thinking, but I don't think it can be entirely ruled out yet.
Those of us who are politically active been aware of the movement for years. It's absolutely not some new term.
It's not like this kind of violence is exclusive to the left. While left-wing violence is real and shouldn't be ignored, the claim that all violence is left-wing is simply not true.
The same day that Kirk was killed, a mass shooting happened in Colorado. The shooter was a neo-nazi. Charlie Kirk has been credited in at least one shooter's manifesto.
Every time a far-right guy commits a mass shooting, your side claims that the shooter is a "lone wolf". Why does this act of violence not get the same treatment?
Why is every single conservative mass shooting not related to the conservative media ecosystem?
Folks like Tucker Carlson, Libs of Tiktok, Matt Walsh, spread rhetoric far more violent than anything I've seen people on the left say in response this shooting.
People like that constantly dehumanize others. They openly call for minorities to be removed from society.
The tendencies you talk about are in no way exclusive to the left.
(To be clear, I do not condone the killing. It should not have happened. It's sad that violence has been normalized in this country to this point)
wrote last edited by [email protected]They have not been retracted.
We know his beliefs. He had anti-fascist messages carved in the bullet casings. Does that sound like a conservative/republican? He lived with and seemingly was in a relationship with a trans identifying male. Doesn’t sound like a republican or conservative.
His own parents have confirmed multiple times that is not a republican, and is a “leftist”.
There comes a time when you guys just need to quit lying to yourself and admit that one of your guys did an evil, despicable thing because of the narrative and hate your side continues to spew. You’re just digging the hole deeper and deeper.
And as for your attempt to say that groyper isn’t the new “message” that the left have spread to try and pretend it’s not their fault:
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Groyper&hl=en
Nice try, but no one is buying it.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
Charlie Kirk is even worse than i realize. The truth is, i've done more to contribute to the well-being of conservatives than Charlie Kirk ever has... you know, just by working at warehouses and restaurants and shit.
Seriously, fuck that guy. The world is better off without him.
Charlie Kirk was a garbage person... we can mock that piece of shit all day just by pulling clips and quotes. Fuck that guy.
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Lol his dad just came out showing his ties to the maga movement lol.
Maga the party of no responsibility and protectors of pedos. Lol
I wonder who will be next of maga when maga attacks. Lol
Edit: breaking news he was passionate about neo-nazi stuff.
Not all republicans are neo-nazis but all neo-nazis are republican.
Literally none of what you just said is true lol. His friends and work colleagues have all said he is a leftist. His trans “girlfriend” simply existing means he’s not “MAGA”.
You guys are absolutely pathetic and insane. He was a far left radical. You all caused this.
