So how do you feel about the whole Charlie Kirk divide?
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I'm scared about the blowback.
It was inevitable that eventually somebody would 'fight back' somehow.
Now we have to deal with how all the idiots act, react and overreact.
It won't be pretty, but again, it was inevitable.
The day of, when it happened, I watched the video... and then had to literally touch grass, walk it off, get some fresh air.
Wife got home, wanted to see it, had the same reaction.
I just don't like watching people die, no matter who it is. But now and then I gaze into the void deliberately.
Its fortunate you and her have the same perspective on this, I know a couple who does not and it's, frankly, getting ugly.
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I'm not a huge fan of anyone meeting this sort of end.
A little mixed feelings because on the other hand I have a bit of an appreciation of the context of a man that has openly consistently declared gun deaths as somewhat acceptable getting killed by a gun.
But ultimately, I would have rather seen him get his ass kicked or a few handgun bullets to the vest to give him some appropriate fear and consequences without him becoming a martyr. Ideally i would have liked him to just get scared into not actively trying to troll people the way he did. Further for it to be clear from the very first moment that it was MAGA infighting, to avoid the incident increasing an already strained division and maybe show the movement the dangerous game they are playing.
I did have a passing thought wondering how or if it would affect him if this happened to be an injury rather than death.
I suppose we'll never know
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I won't miss Charlie Kirk. I'm sad for the people who were there and witnessed a horrific public murder. I am exhausted and numbed to all this gun violence and I'm especially tired of the right wing bullshit about gun rights. I'm confounded and baffled by the bizarre depths of alt-right internet subculture. I'm profoundly disappointed and disillusioned by the state of the United States, but neither am I the least bit shocked. I fear for the deeper divide the next generation faces as fanatical parents drive their children to extremism as others quietly steer theirs towards acceptance, empathy, and inclusiveness.
Charlie Kirk was objectively a garbage human being. I will not mourn him. But nobody should be fucking murdered. The violence and hatred coming from the right is fucking insane and intolerable. We're being led by sycophants, liars, sociopaths, and incompetent grifters hell bent on upending the entire structure of our ordered existence so they can rebuild it into something nightmarish and dystopian. We're in the endgame now. The Democrats do not have a time machine.
There's something my dad texted me the other day when I was talking to him about this
"We’ll be ok. I lived through Vietnam, Kent state, watergate, Kennedy assassination, etc. everything works out eventually" (then some choice words about trump)
That being said, it does feel like the end times, but his statement makes me think, how many others have felt this uncertainty throughout history before us, and how many times did it work out versus get worse? Something to think about I guess
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I'm honestly tired. I've been having feelings of impending doom, and none of this shit is going to slow down. The divide gets bigger each day, and by the looks of our leadership, no one has a goddamn clue about what to do.
I'm very sorry, it's understandable, it really is nonstop
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
No idea who he is, and all the reporting around it seems to assume people know him for some reason.
It sucks that he got shot, but enough people get shot every year that I'm unclear why this one is any different.
If he has any family, I hope they have a support system to grieve
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
Obviously everyone in the country should be scared and sad about where the country has headed in the last decade. MAGA is both a symptom but also an accelerant, and is the natural evolution of late stage capitalism. Until the real root issues are fixed, nothing will actually change it. Stochastic terrorism will get worse, the divide will get worse, the hollowing out of institutions will get worse. Until the common people can turn off Newsmax, Fox, and Tiktok long enough to have a single rational thought of their own, nothing will change for the better.
The elite are dividing the country through those media sources, so that they spend all their time chasing bullshit like LGBT or immigrants, when the real problem is corporate greed and the ultra-wealthy (influenced by Yarvin/Thiel aspirations) seeking to further dismantle society for their own personal gain.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
I feel nothing about it. It doesn't make a difference to me.
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It's big reminder of the dark times we live in. We've become insensitive to the school shootings, they have been weighing less and less on "societies collective mind" since Sandy Hook. They're covered for a day, and vanish from the mind.
This time it was a person most of us knew of and have formed an opinion about. Weather you liked him or not, there is an emotional connection there.
The stark difference in how people are reacting is chilling.
Honestly, its difficult to accept a group cheering on his death to an extreme degree. Making a meme is whatever, but the videos and comments are filled such hate that it is unsettling to witness.At the end of the day, he was a dude exercising his free speech. His words may be misguided, but he had his opinions and was willing to debate them with people.
I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational.
– Event organized by TPUSA Faith, the religious arm of Kirk’s conservative group Turning Point USA, on 5 April 2023
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
FAFO, pure and simple. Not a doctor, but that much blood loss that rapidly generally means it was at least a quick death.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
The main thing I take away from this is how soft people have become since the corporate sanitization of the web. That video was tame compared to stuff that regularly made the rounds even ten years ago. The way people talk about it, you'd think it was a drug cartel video.
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
I went to a bar to have a drink when it happened. I will always drink to dead Nazis
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
Oddly enough, I cherish all life. I joke because the world is often dark, and humor helps me embrace and cope with the unchangeable nature of life and death.
I don’t believe the death penalty is the answer. I’m a strong advocate for reform. I believe everyone deserves a chance to change, mostly because I’ve changed myself, and I want those around me to bounce back from the worst and grow into fathers, mothers, or even symbols of hope for others who have stumbled.
There are people like Charlie Kirk who were angry at the world, consumed by hate. Killing someone like that is the quick path. But the slower and more meaningful path, the one with a greater chance of creating lasting good, is changing their perspective. That could undo not only their hate, but also the hate of those who listen to them. Instead, by destroying them, we often create more fear and more hate.
I know many will say some people will never change, that they are incapable of seeing from the perspective of those they hate. And maybe that’s true. I admit, I struggle to understand fascists, and you might too. But if this conflict is ever going to truly end, it will take understanding, not killing.
Maybe I’m wrong. I just think life, all life, is precious. Some people throw it away through drugs, hate, or wasted time. The addict who never recovers dies with their potential unrealized. The person who clings to hate dies with nothing but bitterness. The real tragedy isn’t just their death, it’s the life they were given and chose to waste.
What happened was unfortunate, no one got through to him in time. Or nothing worked. Just like a heroin addict found dead with a needle in their arm. His hate put a bullet in his neck.
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There's something my dad texted me the other day when I was talking to him about this
"We’ll be ok. I lived through Vietnam, Kent state, watergate, Kennedy assassination, etc. everything works out eventually" (then some choice words about trump)
That being said, it does feel like the end times, but his statement makes me think, how many others have felt this uncertainty throughout history before us, and how many times did it work out versus get worse? Something to think about I guess
Normally, I'd agree with your dad. And I mostly still do. I'm not quite sure how this stacks up against previous crises. I have no doubt, for example, the Cuban Missile Crisis was pants-shittingly terrifying. But we don't have firm hands on the rudders here to steer us back from the brink of madness.
We've discarded the Constitution. We're disregarding rule of law. We'll survive, in all likelihood, persevere, in some fashion. What I'm afraid of is what we lose - who we lose - in this nightmare timeline.
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I went to a bar to have a drink when it happened. I will always drink to dead Nazis
Seems cheaper to just get a bottle of whiskey imo, but then again I'm a homebody
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Oddly enough, I cherish all life. I joke because the world is often dark, and humor helps me embrace and cope with the unchangeable nature of life and death.
I don’t believe the death penalty is the answer. I’m a strong advocate for reform. I believe everyone deserves a chance to change, mostly because I’ve changed myself, and I want those around me to bounce back from the worst and grow into fathers, mothers, or even symbols of hope for others who have stumbled.
There are people like Charlie Kirk who were angry at the world, consumed by hate. Killing someone like that is the quick path. But the slower and more meaningful path, the one with a greater chance of creating lasting good, is changing their perspective. That could undo not only their hate, but also the hate of those who listen to them. Instead, by destroying them, we often create more fear and more hate.
I know many will say some people will never change, that they are incapable of seeing from the perspective of those they hate. And maybe that’s true. I admit, I struggle to understand fascists, and you might too. But if this conflict is ever going to truly end, it will take understanding, not killing.
Maybe I’m wrong. I just think life, all life, is precious. Some people throw it away through drugs, hate, or wasted time. The addict who never recovers dies with their potential unrealized. The person who clings to hate dies with nothing but bitterness. The real tragedy isn’t just their death, it’s the life they were given and chose to waste.
What happened was unfortunate, no one got through to him in time. Or nothing worked. Just like a heroin addict found dead with a needle in their arm. His hate put a bullet in his neck.
This is the perspective of someone who has been around. The block, I respect your ability to look at things objectively
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I'm going to challenge you all, right here, right now. Put down the thought of what's right, what's wrong, how people should be reacting, ect. I'm an apathetic bastard and I really could care less either way.
What I have noticed though is there's a LOT of divide on this one, more than usual. Lemmy's pretty homogenous but go outside to Facebook, Instagram, reddit, any of the mainstream places, hell, even talking about it with friends or family, you get some really differing views and people seem ready to discard longtime relationships over it. Hell, I've seen it happen 3 times now so far.
°So what do you think, take off the politics hat for a second and put on the sociology hat. Take a breath, and examine your surroundings.
°How does what's going on make you feel, sad? Angry? Scared, tired or relieved?
°What do you think this says about which direction our society is going, have you got any predictions? Any old timers who have been through near societal collapses before want to throw in their perspective?
I'm genuinely interested in what you all think
Rolling eyes at all the people that will just not admit they want to kill democrats, gays, blacks, trans, ect and will take any excuse regardless of how illogical it is. Also, it happened the same day they voted down the Epstein files release. If that man would not have been assassinated, the Republican party would be ruined right now. His death is the only reason it will survive.
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I am absolutely done giving grace to these vermin. My energy is not limitless, and I’m saving it for people that matter.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I think you're right not to spend any energy on this, and I agree that it would be performative to pretend to be sad that he left the world. In some ways, our society is better for normalizing honest reactions to things.
However: I want to encourage you to think about what it means to define him as vermin. Within the meaning of this word is the belief that he is low enough on a hierarchy of worth that he no longer falls under the protections and values we afford to "human". And furthermore, he is of a group that can only be effectively dealt with through extermination.
Personally, I don't think this is a useful philosophical concept. It's very central to the philosophies that Charlie Kirk sought to popularize: the idea that some people, through their worldview and lifestyle have forfeited any minimum universal protections we afford to humans, and instead should be eradicated. Obviously, his criteria of human worth was more or less an inverse of yours, but personally I'd reject his overall framework.
I'm really sure whether I truly disagree with it. But I definitely believe that the framework itself inherently benefits the fascist project far, far more than it could benefit a socialist project.
I definitely don't encourage you to mourn him. But I would encourage you to ask whether you really think there's utility in agreeing with him at all on the principle that humans can be vermin.
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Normally, I'd agree with your dad. And I mostly still do. I'm not quite sure how this stacks up against previous crises. I have no doubt, for example, the Cuban Missile Crisis was pants-shittingly terrifying. But we don't have firm hands on the rudders here to steer us back from the brink of madness.
We've discarded the Constitution. We're disregarding rule of law. We'll survive, in all likelihood, persevere, in some fashion. What I'm afraid of is what we lose - who we lose - in this nightmare timeline.
I suppose I can see that, I certainly prefer fear of death from two blocks away rather than fear of death raining down from above. My small comfort is that, yes, we will persevere, I have the same thoughts about climate change. I mean fuck it, our species could wipe our habitability on the earth, but if scientists can develop plastic eating worms I bet some small semblance of life can survive in the aftermath.
Its all about perspective
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Rolling eyes at all the people that will just not admit they want to kill democrats, gays, blacks, trans, ect and will take any excuse regardless of how illogical it is. Also, it happened the same day they voted down the Epstein files release. If that man would not have been assassinated, the Republican party would be ruined right now. His death is the only reason it will survive.
How do you figure? I haven't heard about all this so I'm uninformed.
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I think you're right not to spend any energy on this, and I agree that it would be performative to pretend to be sad that he left the world. In some ways, our society is better for normalizing honest reactions to things.
However: I want to encourage you to think about what it means to define him as vermin. Within the meaning of this word is the belief that he is low enough on a hierarchy of worth that he no longer falls under the protections and values we afford to "human". And furthermore, he is of a group that can only be effectively dealt with through extermination.
Personally, I don't think this is a useful philosophical concept. It's very central to the philosophies that Charlie Kirk sought to popularize: the idea that some people, through their worldview and lifestyle have forfeited any minimum universal protections we afford to humans, and instead should be eradicated. Obviously, his criteria of human worth was more or less an inverse of yours, but personally I'd reject his overall framework.
I'm really sure whether I truly disagree with it. But I definitely believe that the framework itself inherently benefits the fascist project far, far more than it could benefit a socialist project.
I definitely don't encourage you to mourn him. But I would encourage you to ask whether you really think there's utility in agreeing with him at all on the principle that humans can be vermin.
Not the previous user, but I think humanity is something that everyone is endowed with at birth, and a narrow few people choose to surrender it through their actions.
