What is your opinion on national pride / patriotism?
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It's literally a sin. Stop it.
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Chauvinism?
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lol. iamverysmart.
Seriously dude, look up epistemic humility. Will things be bad in the future? Yes, in some ways. Will things be good in the future? Yes, in some ways. What ways? I don't know. No one knows. That's how time works. If I'm going to take you seriously, post your polymarket track record that shows you outperforming everyone else. Until then, you're just a doomer jerking off to the apocalypse.
lol. iamverysmart.
Literally no one who has ever posted that kind of reply has anything useful to contribute in over 12 years of that sub existing
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Collective pride is real and there are a lot examples of it, but it works with small sized groups and when it does it feels great. Because of course we're a social species, but our monkey brain is built around tribes and doesn't conceive whole nations.
And that's why, for example, when I see people cheering for an athlete just because all their parents happened to fuck within the same imaginary lines, I find it really silly.But I know that's me, I have no problems with people who have a healthy national pride. I'm just saying I don't and never had.
You're comparing two things:
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Actually observed collective pride in nations
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Pride in hypothetical tribal bands that may have never existed
And saying the first is "silly" but the second is what we're built for.
Understanding collective pride in its actual form is less silly than pushing into some dreamed-of past.
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National pride can be a dead end in liberation or, when, as Otto Bauer argued, applied rationally towards the end of liberation, a means by which the proletariat of the nation can gain access to and ownership of the national wealth.
"Scholarship is able to explain to us the emergence of the national sentiment from national consciousness, the emergence of the curious national form of evaluation from the national sentiment. But it is also able to criticize this national evaluation. And this is a task of no little significance. For it is only the critique of national ideology that can produce the atmosphere of sobriety that alone makes a fruitful examination of national politics possible."
A national consciousness emerges when we meet people from other nations. We then become aware of that feature and gain a national sentiment or pride. An evaluation of the national form creates a good member of the national. This can, without critically or rationally evaluating it, lead to racist thinking or blaming certain groups for the nation's ills. However, a class evaluation can prevent this and a rational critique of the nation can give the proletariat access to the full cultural wealth of the nation which had only been previously reserved for the elites.
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You're comparing two things:
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Actually observed collective pride in nations
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Pride in hypothetical tribal bands that may have never existed
And saying the first is "silly" but the second is what we're built for.
Understanding collective pride in its actual form is less silly than pushing into some dreamed-of past.
When you say "pride in hypotetycal tribal bands that may have never existed" what do you mean? You don't believe that human beings evolved in tribes or don't believe the members of these tribes felt a sense of common well-being that we call "pride" which have helped our evolution?
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And it’s fucking our country so bad that we won’t be a world power in 20 years
Unfortunately, I very much doubt that. Look at Russia, it's even worse than the USA AND has a far worse economy, yet it's still a major power.
Holy shit, do we have a copypasta comm on Lemmy? That reply you got is brilliant, especially the beginning:
I would sincerely love to talk about the dynamics of America's collapse as it is a special interest of mine, but this is lemmy and no rational discussion survives for more than 10 minutes so please understand when I make this statement, I'm not having a discussion. I am making a point, and ignoring all replies to it.
Love it.
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It's literally a sin. Stop it.
Is that Roman pride?
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I believe true patriotism isn't just about loving your country, it's about holding it accountable to its ideals. I love America deeply, and I honor those who sacrificed to uphold its founding principles. But I also see how words like 'freedom' and 'patriotism' have been misused, often twisted into tools for division or control. To me, being a patriot means seeking truth, learning from history, and speaking out when those values are betrayed. It's about striving to make the country better, not pretending it’s perfect.
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It all depend on how you define patriotism. Honestly, I think Colin Kaepernick kneeling during the national anthem is the most patriotic act ever. He knew people would hate him for it, but he did it anyways because he took a hard look at his own country and decided we needed to do better.
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When you say "pride in hypotetycal tribal bands that may have never existed" what do you mean? You don't believe that human beings evolved in tribes or don't believe the members of these tribes felt a sense of common well-being that we call "pride" which have helped our evolution?
Various tribal structures have existed and still do (I'm a registered member of a clan, was clan secretary at one point) but Rousseau's bands are a fantasy with no archæological basis.
I see to reason to speculate on history when we have collective pride visible in our daily experience. Especially not to say the former is valid and the really-experienced one isn't.
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Is that Roman pride?
You can love your Country, but pride or patriotism leads you down a path dangerous to your fellow man. Find a cause.
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wanting your country to be better if the only valid patriotism.
thinking you're better because some arbitrary borders might as well be a mental disease.
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It’s what the Olympics are for
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Patriotism is really good to have, as one loves it's country and will defend it, but also sees its issues and tries to address them in some constructive way.
This is not to be confused with Nationalism, where the thought that your country is the only richeous one and all others are shit to the point you feel superior to the citizens of other nations and don't want to admit the issues of your country or fix them in any way.
Note: These are loosely based interpretations from me as its 3:30am and I cannot sleep.
