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  3. Half of new EU city buses were zero-emission in 2024

Half of new EU city buses were zero-emission in 2024

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  • misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
    misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
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    wrote on last edited by
    #1
    This post did not contain any content.
    genfood@feddit.orgG blacklazor@fedia.ioB ebolapie@lemmy.worldE M 4 Replies Last reply
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    • misk@sopuli.xyzM [email protected]
      This post did not contain any content.
      genfood@feddit.orgG This user is from outside of this forum
      genfood@feddit.orgG This user is from outside of this forum
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      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      New buses should be 100% zero emissions, but nice I guess.

      lazynooblet@lazysoci.alL 1 Reply Last reply
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      • misk@sopuli.xyzM [email protected]
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        blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
        blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Warsaw public transport made a report few years ago about costs and issues with electeic busses. Main problem: Range, Second problem: Higher total cost over entire lifespan of the vehicle

        misk@sopuli.xyzM 1 Reply Last reply
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        • blacklazor@fedia.ioB [email protected]

          Warsaw public transport made a report few years ago about costs and issues with electeic busses. Main problem: Range, Second problem: Higher total cost over entire lifespan of the vehicle

          misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
          misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
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          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          I don’t think anyone said reducing climate change would come free. It’s still more ethical and cheaper than killing all the people who will try to escape uninhabitable regions of the Earth.

          blacklazor@fedia.ioB V 2 Replies Last reply
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          • misk@sopuli.xyzM [email protected]

            I don’t think anyone said reducing climate change would come free. It’s still more ethical and cheaper than killing all the people who will try to escape uninhabitable regions of the Earth.

            blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
            blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
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            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            These businesses still operate on profit and loss. They can't just move to full electric because in 100 years world might warm up by 4 degrees. If you want electrification, then make electricity and batteries cheap in the first place

            misk@sopuli.xyzM 1 Reply Last reply
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            • blacklazor@fedia.ioB [email protected]

              These businesses still operate on profit and loss. They can't just move to full electric because in 100 years world might warm up by 4 degrees. If you want electrification, then make electricity and batteries cheap in the first place

              misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
              misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              It’s not „might”. The alternative is to burden our children with horrifying cost. Yeah, we can be selfish - it’s more convenient. I don’t think regular people should bear this cost but everywhere I see people are against rising taxes for the rich so this is what they get.

              blacklazor@fedia.ioB 1 Reply Last reply
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              • G This user is from outside of this forum
                G This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Public transport is not a for-profit business, therefore you should not expect it to generate cash. You wouldn't expect highways, national defence or a hospital to bring in money.
                However a functioning public transport network reduces costs caused by high car usage such as pollution, parking, traffic accidents, traffic jams, higher road maintencance.

                blacklazor@fedia.ioB 1 Reply Last reply
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                • G [email protected]

                  Public transport is not a for-profit business, therefore you should not expect it to generate cash. You wouldn't expect highways, national defence or a hospital to bring in money.
                  However a functioning public transport network reduces costs caused by high car usage such as pollution, parking, traffic accidents, traffic jams, higher road maintencance.

                  blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
                  blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
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                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Public transport is not a for-profit business

                  In the end everything is for profit business. New fleets of buses won't magically pay for themselves. City may subsidize the public transport, but it's because the increased economic activity and quality of life attracts people and businesses resulting in higher tax revenue.

                  F 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • misk@sopuli.xyzM [email protected]

                    It’s not „might”. The alternative is to burden our children with horrifying cost. Yeah, we can be selfish - it’s more convenient. I don’t think regular people should bear this cost but everywhere I see people are against rising taxes for the rich so this is what they get.

                    blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
                    blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
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                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Rich pay fuck ton of taxes. Most of EU has progressive taxation and capital gains tax. What else do you want? Unlike in USA there's no 'Buy, Borrow, Die' loophole allowing tax escape when inheritance happens

                    misk@sopuli.xyzM 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • D This user is from outside of this forum
                      D This user is from outside of this forum
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                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      It's already warming, and the disasters are already happening.

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                      • blacklazor@fedia.ioB [email protected]

                        Rich pay fuck ton of taxes. Most of EU has progressive taxation and capital gains tax. What else do you want? Unlike in USA there's no 'Buy, Borrow, Die' loophole allowing tax escape when inheritance happens

                        misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
                        misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
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                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        When was the last time wealthy stopped getting wealthier? 70s? That’s about how long wealthy have been systemically preferred over everyone else.

                        blacklazor@fedia.ioB 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • misk@sopuli.xyzM [email protected]

                          When was the last time wealthy stopped getting wealthier? 70s? That’s about how long wealthy have been systemically preferred over everyone else.

                          blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
                          blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
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                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          When was the last time wealthy stopped getting wealthier?

                          This isn't even a problem. You should strive for increasing quality of life for everyone rather than some idealistic notion of equality. People aren't equal, period. Some have great ability to run business or produce goods, others don't. Inequality is inevitable.

                          misk@sopuli.xyzM 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • blacklazor@fedia.ioB [email protected]

                            When was the last time wealthy stopped getting wealthier?

                            This isn't even a problem. You should strive for increasing quality of life for everyone rather than some idealistic notion of equality. People aren't equal, period. Some have great ability to run business or produce goods, others don't. Inequality is inevitable.

                            misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
                            misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
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                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            That’s very reductive and convenient for the wealthy. It will be convenient until we reach wealth inequality that US just reached. What they have now is about same as 30s Germany and 90s Rwanda. This alarms me but it doesn’t alarm you so I must assume you’re fine with the outcome.

                            blacklazor@fedia.ioB 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • misk@sopuli.xyzM [email protected]

                              That’s very reductive and convenient for the wealthy. It will be convenient until we reach wealth inequality that US just reached. What they have now is about same as 30s Germany and 90s Rwanda. This alarms me but it doesn’t alarm you so I must assume you’re fine with the outcome.

                              blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
                              blacklazor@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
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                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              What they have now is about same as 30s Germany and 90s Rwanda

                              I don't know much about Rwanda, but I can tell that claim "Ineqaulity caused Hitler" is pretty much wrong. You're trying to say, that the people fed up by the inequality between elites and the poor voted Hitler into power, but that's not what happened. It was the majority party SPD - German Social-Democrats - who put him in the chancellor position. Nazis had something around 20% and two biggest parties were Social Democrats and Communists.

                              I'm constantly amazed that these events are given so little time in the history classes in schools.

                              misk@sopuli.xyzM 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • blacklazor@fedia.ioB [email protected]

                                What they have now is about same as 30s Germany and 90s Rwanda

                                I don't know much about Rwanda, but I can tell that claim "Ineqaulity caused Hitler" is pretty much wrong. You're trying to say, that the people fed up by the inequality between elites and the poor voted Hitler into power, but that's not what happened. It was the majority party SPD - German Social-Democrats - who put him in the chancellor position. Nazis had something around 20% and two biggest parties were Social Democrats and Communists.

                                I'm constantly amazed that these events are given so little time in the history classes in schools.

                                misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
                                misk@sopuli.xyzM This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                So you’re saying historically it was the moderates or centrists that enabled fascism? Fully agreed.

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                                • H This user is from outside of this forum
                                  H This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Money is your vote on what the society should produce. Income inequality actually fucks over everyone except the wealthiest. That's why everyone is bombarded with ads for luxury items. While housing, food, and medicine is becoming more unobtainable.

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                                  • genfood@feddit.orgG [email protected]

                                    New buses should be 100% zero emissions, but nice I guess.

                                    lazynooblet@lazysoci.alL This user is from outside of this forum
                                    lazynooblet@lazysoci.alL This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Wouldn't long journeys make that somewhat infeasible?

                                    Charging stations don't look like they cater for buses, and I imagine charging the batteries of a bus to take a while, even at high KW.

                                    genfood@feddit.orgG O M 3 Replies Last reply
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                                    • lnxtx@feddit.nlL This user is from outside of this forum
                                      lnxtx@feddit.nlL This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Bring back trolleys 🙂

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • lazynooblet@lazysoci.alL [email protected]

                                        Wouldn't long journeys make that somewhat infeasible?

                                        Charging stations don't look like they cater for buses, and I imagine charging the batteries of a bus to take a while, even at high KW.

                                        genfood@feddit.orgG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        genfood@feddit.orgG This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Public transport buses won't be charged on public chargers. They have service facilities where they will be charged and maintained.

                                        Furthermore, I talk about new busses, not about replacing perfectly fine working existing busses. So parallel to the new busses you have time to increase the capacity of the infrastructure.

                                        I don't think the points you mentioned, are an actual problem. And remember they have planned to become climate neutral by the end of this decade. Obviously this want be the case, but nevertheless I don't see the problem to invest in the infrastructure which will cost something now but will be cheaper by a substantial margin in the long run. This is just a logical process imo.

                                        lazynooblet@lazysoci.alL 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • lazynooblet@lazysoci.alL [email protected]

                                          Wouldn't long journeys make that somewhat infeasible?

                                          Charging stations don't look like they cater for buses, and I imagine charging the batteries of a bus to take a while, even at high KW.

                                          O This user is from outside of this forum
                                          O This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Most countries have rules in place about how many hours a driver is allowed to drive without a break. It's "after 4,5h, make a 45 min pause" here in Germany, which at 80km/h or 100km/h max for buses gives you a range of 360km - 450km, which is totally fine with current technology. The biggest problem here is that companies are totally ignoring the rules here

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