Why Norway is edging towards a fresh EU membership bid
-
Norway is already part of EEA and Schengen. Giving up more of the democratic power of the people to politicians and their benefactors in Brussels who couldn't give a toss about Norway, for no gain, sounds like great deal.
Not to mention the insane scope creep that EU is undergoing, it's hardly just a single market union anymore.
The European Union is good thing, and it has done great thing for Europe and its members, but Norway isn't in situation where we need to join.
I'm not going to tell you what to do, but not being part of the EU is a bit strange to me. You follow about 80% of our EU rules without any real say about them. You pay into the EU budget.
You're almost members already, so I feel full membership would just confirm what you already have.
It's pretty good for us other nordics, so I believe you'd be just fine.
But again, that's up to you. -
I'm not going to tell you what to do, but not being part of the EU is a bit strange to me. You follow about 80% of our EU rules without any real say about them. You pay into the EU budget.
You're almost members already, so I feel full membership would just confirm what you already have.
It's pretty good for us other nordics, so I believe you'd be just fine.
But again, that's up to you.without any real say about them. You pay into the EU budget.
As opposed to the miniscule say we would have as one of 28. It would hardly make much of difference if Germany or France wanted to push in a different direction, or if the budding dictatorship member state decides to veto.
And again, what is there to gain to trade our sovereignty for? It would also make essentially impossible to ever decouple from EU if it starts going a direction we don't want to follow.
We budget ~5 billion dollar annually in foreign aid. The annual EEA "membership cost" between 2014 and 2021 was ~0,4 billion. The cost really isn't much of a concern. And it's not like you stop sending money to the EU once you become a member. E.g. Sweden is a net contributer to EU with 1,6 billion euros spent in 2023.
It's pretty good for us other nordics
I'm happy for you, and not at all salty that we'll never have Scandinavian union instead
-
The people are great though. Social cohesion is good. People care about each other even if they don't talk. So at the same time, you get your peace, and you get support by everyone.
Unrelated cheap advertising: Join us at [email protected]!
-
Unrelated cheap advertising: Join us at [email protected]!
Followed
-
without any real say about them. You pay into the EU budget.
As opposed to the miniscule say we would have as one of 28. It would hardly make much of difference if Germany or France wanted to push in a different direction, or if the budding dictatorship member state decides to veto.
And again, what is there to gain to trade our sovereignty for? It would also make essentially impossible to ever decouple from EU if it starts going a direction we don't want to follow.
We budget ~5 billion dollar annually in foreign aid. The annual EEA "membership cost" between 2014 and 2021 was ~0,4 billion. The cost really isn't much of a concern. And it's not like you stop sending money to the EU once you become a member. E.g. Sweden is a net contributer to EU with 1,6 billion euros spent in 2023.
It's pretty good for us other nordics
I'm happy for you, and not at all salty that we'll never have Scandinavian union instead
As opposed to the miniscule say we would have as one of 28. It would hardly make much of difference if Germany or France wanted to push in a different direction, or if the budding dictatorship member state decides to veto.
Smaller countries have a bigger say than they should, to prevent the bigger nations from steamrolling them. That said it would take a few, which is why the UK leaving was a bit sad. They were usually on our side.
And again, what is there to gain to trade our sovereignty for? It would also make essentially impossible to ever decouple from EU if it starts going a direction we don't want to follow.
But right now Norway has NO say, and follow almost everything we decide. How is that better? What sovereignty are you afraid of losing? Don't you think banding together with the other nordics and perhaps the baltics would give you more of a say?
And as the UK is finding out as we speak, it's very, very, hard and expensive, to decouple from your closest neighbour and trading partner.
Canada is also in a similar situating, but for a different reason.We budget ~5 billion dollar annually in foreign aid. The annual EEA "membership cost" between 2014 and 2021 was ~0,4 billion. The cost really isn't much of a concern. And it's not like you stop sending money to the EU once you become a member. E.g. Sweden is a net contributer to EU with 1,6 billion euros spent in 2023.
Oh no, membership costs, especially for rich countries, but a rising tide lifts all ships, so it's not a bad deal.
But as an example, at the time of joining, Poland had the same GDP as Ukraine and now Poland has 5 times the GDP of Ukraine. Numbers taken before the invasion.I'm happy for you, and not at all salty that we'll never have Scandinavian union instead
We can have a nordic union within the EU. Norway would absolutely strengthen the north. I'd welcome you, as well as Iceland and I'd also take the UK back, in time.
-
Everything will be taken care of mate. The Netherlands also had massive gas reserves while it was in the EU. The EU is an economic union. Norway probably also has challenges or flaws and the union can fill those gaps. Similarly you bring something and that fills a gap elsewhere. It is not about your own wealth, it is about the combined wealth. The Netherlands has always contributed a lot to the EU states (especially southern), however we have also gained a lot in social & economic freedom and economic wealth through strong partnerships (our ports also are key assets for German and Belgian industries).
Look at the US; unity creates strength, division creates weakness. Do you think California (with the tech community) or Texas (with its oil fields) would be as strong as they are now if they were independent? Nope.
Only a strong and united Europe can successfully stand up against the bullies to the West and to the East.
Right populists might have tried to make it look different, but despite all it's flaws all countries end up gaining more from the EU than they lose. Looks like many people in the UK were disappointed after effects of leaving kicked in and felt mislead by politicians who pushed the vote for leaving.
We certainly need to reform the EU to be faster, less bureaucratic, and so on, but this is the best we got right now and like democracy, it's a shitty organisation but better than all existing alternatives, including not having it at all
-
I am also worried about our agriculture... it is difficult to farm here which makes us already one of the least self sufficient countries in terms of farmed goods and joining eu without any allowance for protectionism here would destroy what we have. Given the focus on preparedness for war and resilience these days that would in my opinion be a horrible idea.
But if that agricultural sector isnāt that productive, does it even make sense at an EU level? Arenāt you better off trying to move to a services and information economy as much as possible, while you let countries like Portugal, Spain, Italy handle agriculture? The solidarity of EU membership would mean you could rely on this kind of arrangement.
-
But if that agricultural sector isnāt that productive, does it even make sense at an EU level? Arenāt you better off trying to move to a services and information economy as much as possible, while you let countries like Portugal, Spain, Italy handle agriculture? The solidarity of EU membership would mean you could rely on this kind of arrangement.
In almost any other sector I would agree. Food and water supply, not so much. War and other potential global disruptive events could cut us off from mainland europe or at least make deliveries more difficult. We are already very dependent on imports. This could make us entirely so. I dont want to starve.
-
So the EU takes no cut whatsoever on what Sweden makes on their exports? I doubt that. Some is obviously, but how much? What does the regular Swede stand to gain from it?
If I remember right there were talks of the EU imposing tariffs on Norwegian seafood due to a disagreement on who could fish where on our borders in the North Sea and Skagerrak. I didnāt hear more about if after reading a news story last year so I donāt know how it was resolved. But this is one thing Iāll have to look into before making a choice if Iām against or for a full membership.
What happens to our fossil fuel exports? Will we keep complete sovereignty or will there be a deal where Norway is forced to share? For example, look what sharing Norwegian produced hydroelectricity with Europe has done to the cost of electricity. Granted, the Norwegian government has made some serious overhead by selling green energy to the EU and buying cheaper energy back. But Norwegians have seen a ridiculous increase on electricity costs also, people donāt like that.
Another factor is Russia. We are territorial neighbors in the arctic and have a fairly brittle agreement about a very, very strategic island called Svalbard. Not to mention fishing territory in the north and arctic sea. Weāre obviously a founding member of NATO, but will a EU membership create more tension with Putin?
We are facing issues that we have to have faith will be resolved in the best interest of all parties without us losing more than we bargained for.
All this being said, Iām not completely opposed to becoming a member. Iām just reserved.
i mean they don't take a cut directly, but the membership fees are proportional to GDP. some countries get back more money than they pay.
the electricity thing is different, and annoying. electricity doesn't care about markets, it just goes wherever. the nordics still have europe's cheapest electricity by far, but as long as the grids are connected together it's all just one big machine and trying to treat it as a segmented market just leads to problems. it's an abstraction.
-
In almost any other sector I would agree. Food and water supply, not so much. War and other potential global disruptive events could cut us off from mainland europe or at least make deliveries more difficult. We are already very dependent on imports. This could make us entirely so. I dont want to starve.
I guess that makes sense
-
System shared this topic on
