Is it racist to oppose illegal immigrants?
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The term is a little racist. It is like defining someone as an excon, or ex convict, rather than someone who has spent time in prison. Or as disabled rather than a person with a disability. You define people as a simple thing rather than as a whole person with a feature. It flattens people into less than they are and makes them less than human.
So opposing people who flaunt the rules is a separate question to opposing illegal immigrants. You don't dismiss their humanity, you don't discard them, you say "You breeched the rules and here are the consequences."
The second layer is whether you believe in the rules. Do you believe people from other countries are fundamentally different to you? Are they less because of where they come from? If so, yes, racist. If not, then probably not.
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I feel like "illegal" immigration as a concept is inherently racist and being upset and anyone for not coming over the "right" way is also racist.
Without a one world government that could police people cross border, wouldn't it be all to easy walk in to a country, do a bit crime, and then walk to the next one? Not to mention human trafficking problems if no one was tracked how they travel across countries.
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Usually, yes
Because usually the reason they have to be illegal is racist, and the person complaining about illegal immigration is fine with it.Where are you coming from with "the reason they have to be illegal is racist"? If you wouldn't mind clarifying.
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No. And I am tired of people assuming I'm racist for not wanting idiots coming over in small boats from france
While I don’t know your racial euphemisms, “small boats” raises red flags. Maybe it’s not racist, but ….
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Ok, so just wishful thinking then. The problem is we live in the present, not some utopian future.
Ask yourself, why is there no need to criminalize immigration between states/provinces within a country such as the US?
Now you're just copying my comment and changing the timeframe lol.
Can you elaborate on how you think turning the world into a utopia would be achievable?
So clearly you didn't fully read my comment, so why should I expend the effort typing out a response? It would be a waste if you're just going to read part of it and then ask questions I've already given the answer to.
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Their mode of entry into the UK was illegal but any asylum claims they make will be assessed as being potentially valid. I think you were saying the same thing but not sure.
The reason people are particularly pissed off is that Farage and co. have framed the debate as an issue of fairness. Essentially the charge levelled at the irregular migrants is queue jumping, which we don't look upon fondly in our culture.
On our side of the pond, it’s becoming more apparent how many ways immigrants can end up undocumented. Of course it’s always framed as drug cartel member sneaking over the border at night to rape the women, or whatever bs stereotypes they can use to frighten people, but
- sometimes it’s a college student who dropped out of school and didn’t leave
- sometimes it’s a tech worker who got laid off and hasn’t yet found another sponsor
- sometimes it’s someone struggling to do the right thing and missed something. Maybe a paperwork thing a decade ago
- sometimes it’s an ambush when they are doing the right thing
- sometimes they’re refugees from horrible circumstances.
- sometimes it’s someone just trying to work
- sometimes they’re just trying to live as a family when a cruel system would separate them
If your system, like ours, uses the worst stereotypes to scapegoat all undocumented aliens, deprives them of their rights, uses racial profiling to decide who to attack, “officers” hide their faces and identities and don’t even seem to know the laws they’re supposedly enforcing, use escalating violence for infractions that have always been civil issues, claim they’re deporting “the worst of the worst criminals” while setting ambushes at work sites and immigrant processing centers, then you too may be racist
We’re over here trying to set an example of what NOT to do, apparently.
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While I don’t know your racial euphemisms, “small boats” raises red flags. Maybe it’s not racist, but ….
How is describing the size of a boat racist
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Without a one world government that could police people cross border, wouldn't it be all to easy walk in to a country, do a bit crime, and then walk to the next one? Not to mention human trafficking problems if no one was tracked how they travel across countries.
So you think every person on the planet should be tracked every time they cross any border anywhere?
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On our side of the pond, it’s becoming more apparent how many ways immigrants can end up undocumented. Of course it’s always framed as drug cartel member sneaking over the border at night to rape the women, or whatever bs stereotypes they can use to frighten people, but
- sometimes it’s a college student who dropped out of school and didn’t leave
- sometimes it’s a tech worker who got laid off and hasn’t yet found another sponsor
- sometimes it’s someone struggling to do the right thing and missed something. Maybe a paperwork thing a decade ago
- sometimes it’s an ambush when they are doing the right thing
- sometimes they’re refugees from horrible circumstances.
- sometimes it’s someone just trying to work
- sometimes they’re just trying to live as a family when a cruel system would separate them
If your system, like ours, uses the worst stereotypes to scapegoat all undocumented aliens, deprives them of their rights, uses racial profiling to decide who to attack, “officers” hide their faces and identities and don’t even seem to know the laws they’re supposedly enforcing, use escalating violence for infractions that have always been civil issues, claim they’re deporting “the worst of the worst criminals” while setting ambushes at work sites and immigrant processing centers, then you too may be racist
We’re over here trying to set an example of what NOT to do, apparently.
There are genuine integration issues in the UK so the anti-migrant bloc do have some valid concerns. However, there will be a non-insignificant amount of racists among them.
Weirdly, the "skipping the queue" rhetoric even works with fellow migrants. I have a friend from Iran who I used to work with that moved to the UK ~3 years ago; he's way angrier about irregular channel crossings than the average Scottish person I know. I'd imagine spending a lot of money and years on a waiting list before being given a work visa was a grating experience though.
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Would bigger boats help?
Size doesn't matter. As long as they get their passports checked
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No. And I am tired of people assuming I'm racist for not wanting idiots coming over in small boats from france
You'd have to be pretty desperate to do something like that.
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This post did not contain any content.wrote last edited by [email protected]
No,
because it doesn't even fit the definition of racism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
Illegal immigrants are of absolutely all sorts, so there is no single human trait that is uniquely only found in illegal migrants.
Also, people don't oppose illegal migrants, they oppose illegal migration as a general thing. Illegal migrants are not the problem, they are simply the cause, and people hate the problems that arise in a society after to much illegal migration.People need to stop calling everyone they disagree with racists, its so watered down that it completely lost any meaning and weight behind it. Didn't get up to a granny on the bus? Racist. Driving a white car? Racist. Using an iPhone? Racist.
There is a version of illegal migration that I would support and truly leave an open door for everyone: You must adopt the culture, you must learn the language, you must find a job, you won't get any welfare or housing and you can't ask for anything in our society to be "like it was at your home". And voila! Everyone welcome.
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So you think every person on the planet should be tracked every time they cross any border anywhere?
I don't. I would obviously like a world where border control wasn't necessary for travel. And it's obviously not an impossibility considering the schengen area exists. But I don't see tracking influx of immigrants to be a bad thing, if anything so you know how many resources to budget for their care (in the case of refugees) and making sure people don't go missing.
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Not really, but the racist part is opposing measures making it achievable and even simple to do so legally. Then all the terrible treatment along the way.
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You'd have to be pretty desperate to do something like that.
wrote last edited by [email protected]So desperate to get out of France? Or so desperate to have a holiday?
People ride the roofs of trains for fun, or climb construction sites/buildings. You don't have to be desperate to do something dangerous.
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Why do you oppose them?
- The crime they don't bring?
- Economic losses they don't cause to citizen workers?
- Economic gains to domestic businesses?
- The contributions to social security & medicare they don't get back?
- Because they're not white?
- Because outsiders are convenient scapegoats for politicians to blame & flex power?
It's important to pin down clear, substantiated reasons.
From The Business of Migrant Detention covering the history of anti-immigration policies & its disparate treatment of white & brown immigrants
ARABLOUEI: OK. If federal government's spending all this money to detain and then deport people and a lot of times they're coming back in the country, and it's not actually achieving anything economically in terms of supporting American workers and it's actually hurting American companies, why? Like, why are they doing this if there's no material benefit to the economy or to protecting workers?
NOFIL: To me, it is a core question of sort of who is an American. Immigration detention's roots are in this moment that is so blatantly racist, that sort of - you know, the Chinese Exclusion Act pulls no punches about what it is doing. It is targeted to a specific group of people. But that is where we get the legal precedents that undergird this entire system today. It is a system that has only really ever, to my opinion, receded. Immigration detention is only really ever rolled back when it is seen as threatening whiteness. And it is a system that has, you know, continually expanded and gained public support by, you know, targeting racialized people, by targeting people who Americans are encouraged to imagine as maybe kind of criminal anyway, right? It is doing political work, and it is doing work that I think is, like, really revealing about how the nation sees itself.
look at canada
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It's not racist to take issur with illegal immigration.
It's just not right to oppose the immigrants as people, or say that their situation is the result of some moral failing. These people make the best decisions for themselves and their families.
It becomes racist when you start attributing characteristics or behaviors to their race as fundamental attributes.
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Where are you coming from with "the reason they have to be illegal is racist"? If you wouldn't mind clarifying.
Kind of like how a lot of anti-poor laws in the USA were targeting former slaves without actually saying it, and poor-white people were collateral damage.
Why would they be migrating illegally when migrating legally would clearly be better for them?
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Short answer yes with an if. The long answer is no with a but.
I'd say it's racist if someone is complaining about illegal immigrants alongside a general contempt of 'foreigners' and not paying attention to the details of why it's illegal for them to migrate the way they did and what options are available for legal migration.
It's not racist to be opposed to those who are in violation of the law, as that is not a racial or ethnic classification. But it is important to be inquisitive as to why the law is the way that it is, and be willing to consider the possibility that just because something is against the law does not mean that it should be. Law has long been used as a tool of systemic oppression and racism, as well as many other horrific abuses inflicted on people.
