The commons is the one that hits hardest for me.
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The commons is the one that hits hardest for me. In Washington State, you have to pay to use our state parks as well as the federal parks. They're saying that we're paying to park.
The commons is the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of a society, including natural materials such as air, water, and a habitable Earth. These resources are held in common even when owned privately or publicly.
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The commons is the one that hits hardest for me. In Washington State, you have to pay to use our state parks as well as the federal parks. They're saying that we're paying to park.
The commons is the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of a society, including natural materials such as air, water, and a habitable Earth. These resources are held in common even when owned privately or publicly.
Have you tried cycling?
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Have you tried cycling?
Have you tried cycling to Deception Pass or Hurricane Ridge? Let me know how much fun that is.
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Have you tried cycling to Deception Pass or Hurricane Ridge? Let me know how much fun that is.
Super fun and challenging, most likely. Some of the roads are likely difficult on a bike.Lots of other state parks that are accessible by bike besides those two. Heres a great list that includes a bunch.
Paying in $35/yr so the state parks can be maintained and improved is a very reasonable cost, especially with all the damage people and cars do to them.
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Super fun and challenging, most likely. Some of the roads are likely difficult on a bike.Lots of other state parks that are accessible by bike besides those two. Heres a great list that includes a bunch.
Paying in $35/yr so the state parks can be maintained and improved is a very reasonable cost, especially with all the damage people and cars do to them.
Like Paradise at Mt. Rainier, Hoh Rain Forest, 4 Caves, and Wallace Falls. Actually at Wallace Falls, you can ride your bike once you get it there, but you might be chased and killed by a mountain lion. You can be killed as a hiker too, but people on bikes look like prey.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival/washington-bikers-fight-cougar/
I'm not anti-bike, I'm anti bike for everything and all situations. A lot of bike enthusiasts are not living in reality.
Edit: Also, because your poor and can't afford parking, you can't take your family? Or do you expect everyone to have bikes?
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Like Paradise at Mt. Rainier, Hoh Rain Forest, 4 Caves, and Wallace Falls. Actually at Wallace Falls, you can ride your bike once you get it there, but you might be chased and killed by a mountain lion. You can be killed as a hiker too, but people on bikes look like prey.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival/washington-bikers-fight-cougar/
I'm not anti-bike, I'm anti bike for everything and all situations. A lot of bike enthusiasts are not living in reality.
Edit: Also, because your poor and can't afford parking, you can't take your family? Or do you expect everyone to have bikes?
Neat article. Can you link me to one about the tens of thousands of mountain bikers in Washington that were not chased by cougars?
All outdoor activities in nature carry risk, some more than others. By far the most dangerous thing for cyclists is motorists, not wildlife. If you can safely navigate the roads to get to a park, your other risks are minimal in comparison.
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Neat article. Can you link me to one about the tens of thousands of mountain bikers in Washington that were not chased by cougars?
All outdoor activities in nature carry risk, some more than others. By far the most dangerous thing for cyclists is motorists, not wildlife. If you can safely navigate the roads to get to a park, your other risks are minimal in comparison.
I can't get over your sense of entitlement on this. You think everyone is healthy enough to ride a bike and be excluded from the amazing views and experiences of national and state parks because they're poor and drive a car? You are in a bubble. I'm glad you like bikes and feel that sense of superiority when you don't have to pay parking. The point is, the commons have to be paid for.
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I can't get over your sense of entitlement on this. You think everyone is healthy enough to ride a bike and be excluded from the amazing views and experiences of national and state parks because they're poor and drive a car? You are in a bubble. I'm glad you like bikes and feel that sense of superiority when you don't have to pay parking. The point is, the commons have to be paid for.
Ha, sense of entitlement eh? That's a quick pivot away from your weak point about "bikes are dangerous because of rare mountain lion attacks" i guess. Now trying to call me abelist and classist as a random jab? Sure thing, pal.
The common is the commons and has to be paid for. Without funding the commons falls to "the tragedy of the commons," where the common good is destroyed by overuse and neglect. Washington has opted to protect the parks with a minimal, once a year fee to the people doing the most damage to the commons, drivers, that you are complaining about.
So you think the people using a common good and doing the most damage to it should not pay for that use? Why should the poor people without cars, the people who aren't able to bike or drive, pay for your visit?
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Ha, sense of entitlement eh? That's a quick pivot away from your weak point about "bikes are dangerous because of rare mountain lion attacks" i guess. Now trying to call me abelist and classist as a random jab? Sure thing, pal.
The common is the commons and has to be paid for. Without funding the commons falls to "the tragedy of the commons," where the common good is destroyed by overuse and neglect. Washington has opted to protect the parks with a minimal, once a year fee to the people doing the most damage to the commons, drivers, that you are complaining about.
So you think the people using a common good and doing the most damage to it should not pay for that use? Why should the poor people without cars, the people who aren't able to bike or drive, pay for your visit?
So you think the people using a common good and doing the most damage to it should not pay for that use? Why should the poor people without cars, the people who aren’t able to bike or drive, pay for your visit?
Because that's what our taxes are for. That's what we're paying for, the commons. Drivers licenses, car registrations, etc., yeah sure, I can see why we pay for that.
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So you think the people using a common good and doing the most damage to it should not pay for that use? Why should the poor people without cars, the people who aren’t able to bike or drive, pay for your visit?
Because that's what our taxes are for. That's what we're paying for, the commons. Drivers licenses, car registrations, etc., yeah sure, I can see why we pay for that.
I'd also prefer this to be rolled into an income tax, but Washington doesn't have one. The state only has a regressive sales taxes, one that has an outsized impact on our poorest citizens.
By making this a "fee for use," it at least minimizes the damage to the poor who can't access the parks at all.
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Have you tried cycling?
Yes everyone who ever wants to go to a truly set aside, lovely natural park is a Tour de France level bicyclist.
Fuck disabled people, why should they enjoy nature?
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Yes everyone who ever wants to go to a truly set aside, lovely natural park is a Tour de France level bicyclist.
Fuck disabled people, why should they enjoy nature?
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Cool.
Anyway, my right wrist, and arm and right leg are royally fucked up.
What about amputees?
People with muscular dystrophy?
People prone to seizures, spasms, fainting?
People with unhealthy hearts?
People who are blind, or deaf?
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Cool.
Anyway, my right wrist, and arm and right leg are royally fucked up.
What about amputees?
People with muscular dystrophy?
People prone to seizures, spasms, fainting?
People with unhealthy hearts?
People who are blind, or deaf?
Is your right arm or your left arm fucked up? If you have at least two functional limbs, there's probably a way to make this work.
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Is your right arm or your left arm fucked up? If you have at least two functional limbs, there's probably a way to make this work.
My entire right side is fucked.
My entire musculature system needs to basically be reconfigured, retrained, now that all the fractures have healed.
My PT told me oh yeah, your nervous system has gotten so accustomed to being in constant pain that you basically go from a background level of 8 out of 10, which you now find generally tolerable, to 10, which you find immensely painful, whenever... well pretty much any tendon or muscle on your right side goes ''just slightly'' out of its safe range of motion.
Don't even have painkillers, by the way. Just ibuprofen and acetometaphen.
I've been immobile, literally bed ridden, for the past 6 months, barring the excrutiatingly painful PT routine, hobbling to the bathroom/shower (got a shower seat), and microwaving soup or whatever.
Typing these messages is quite painful, but it does actually count as part of the PT if I use the right position/grip.
I will probably be in aquatherapy for at least another 3 months, if not 6, or 12.
A local charity drives me to and from the visits... which i hobble out to the car in my braces, with my cane.
... You're not gonna theory craft your way into a more effective mobility solution for my entire life situation than myself and my doctors, unless that involves cashapping me several thousand or tens of thousands of dollars.
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My entire right side is fucked.
My entire musculature system needs to basically be reconfigured, retrained, now that all the fractures have healed.
My PT told me oh yeah, your nervous system has gotten so accustomed to being in constant pain that you basically go from a background level of 8 out of 10, which you now find generally tolerable, to 10, which you find immensely painful, whenever... well pretty much any tendon or muscle on your right side goes ''just slightly'' out of its safe range of motion.
Don't even have painkillers, by the way. Just ibuprofen and acetometaphen.
I've been immobile, literally bed ridden, for the past 6 months, barring the excrutiatingly painful PT routine, hobbling to the bathroom/shower (got a shower seat), and microwaving soup or whatever.
Typing these messages is quite painful, but it does actually count as part of the PT if I use the right position/grip.
I will probably be in aquatherapy for at least another 3 months, if not 6, or 12.
A local charity drives me to and from the visits... which i hobble out to the car in my braces, with my cane.
... You're not gonna theory craft your way into a more effective mobility solution for my entire life situation than myself and my doctors, unless that involves cashapping me several thousand or tens of thousands of dollars.
Dude, I'm truly sad that you felt like you had to explain your issues with them. These guys acting like asshats think that they'll be healthy forever and have money no matter what. That might be true, but it also might not. I think these diehard bicyclists have too much testosterone or something. I really don't know what it is, but they act super smug and entitled when it comes to bikes vs cars.
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I'd also prefer this to be rolled into an income tax, but Washington doesn't have one. The state only has a regressive sales taxes, one that has an outsized impact on our poorest citizens.
By making this a "fee for use," it at least minimizes the damage to the poor who can't access the parks at all.
IMO, they should have made out of state people pay more and Washington State residents pay nothing, like they do in Hawaii.
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IMO, they should have made out of state people pay more and Washington State residents pay nothing, like they do in Hawaii.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Tourists have to buy day passes or a discovery pass in Washington. Day passes are $11.50/day. They are already in general being charged way more than people that go to the parks year round with the $35 annual pass. This is comparable, but actually higher, than what hawaii charges tourists.
Hawaii's parks are visited way more by tourists than Washingtons parks. You would have to make the tourist pass something ridiculous to cover the shortfall, which would price out tourists, meaning no income for the park, meaning parks destroyed by Washingtonians.
$35/yr is a reasonable resident cost. $11/day is a reasonable tourist cost. Seems like Washington has made reasonable choices for this that reflect the states needs.
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Dude, I'm truly sad that you felt like you had to explain your issues with them. These guys acting like asshats think that they'll be healthy forever and have money no matter what. That might be true, but it also might not. I think these diehard bicyclists have too much testosterone or something. I really don't know what it is, but they act super smug and entitled when it comes to bikes vs cars.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I appreciate the sentiment.
I'm used to casual ableism in general, but these folks have some weapons grade, fucking Clydesdale, Belgian Draft level high horses they rode in on to this discussion.
Normally when you just point out... hey disabled people exist, 99% of people go, oh fuck, shit, i forgot... good point...
Years ago I noticed a trend on Seattle based subreddits that... there's a lot of just unbelievably perma online debatelord bullshit culture going on.
I know there was some massively stupid meta drama with there being like dueling Seattle subreddits and I think a third one at one point?
Its like tankie levels of utter certainty that anyone who could ever disagree with them on any minor issue, or even the precise language or framing talking about such is obviously a bad faith shit disturber employed by the CIA to detract from the... whatever worldview it is they have... which they also just... assume you already know all the details of... before you ever talk to them.
My guess would be these people are basically trauma molded by that, and brought it here to lemmy.
...
I ran into another person yesterday in some other thread, a meme about jesus telling people to cut off the tips of their dicks.
I threw in some historical background about why it is that... that's really only an American Christian thing.
... and some rando is like 'oh my god. i just got here from reddit and I am SICK of people obsessing over male circumcision, its not that big a deal, why are people here like this too, not a good look lemmy!'
Told im Ive been using lemmy for over a year (recently switched over to dbzero because yargh mateys!)... and I'd never even brought up this topic before.
He replies that he is going to rebutt any discussion of male genital mutilation anywhere he sees it!
... And I laugh at his hypocritical understanding of the word 'obsession'.
...
Maybe we need like some kind of resocialization, decompression zone, type of comm.
Gotta unlearn the hyperdefensive reflex, the undo the antisocial personity disorder that happens when you OD on toxic corpo social media.
... Either that or if these people actually ride bicycles, and don't just debatelord about them on the net...
One good T-Boning on a bike by a car running a red at 30 mph and they'll be about as fucked up as I am.
Happens every day.
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Tourists have to buy day passes or a discovery pass in Washington. Day passes are $11.50/day. They are already in general being charged way more than people that go to the parks year round with the $35 annual pass. This is comparable, but actually higher, than what hawaii charges tourists.
Hawaii's parks are visited way more by tourists than Washingtons parks. You would have to make the tourist pass something ridiculous to cover the shortfall, which would price out tourists, meaning no income for the park, meaning parks destroyed by Washingtonians.
$35/yr is a reasonable resident cost. $11/day is a reasonable tourist cost. Seems like Washington has made reasonable choices for this that reflect the states needs.
I guess we're going to disagree. We were poor when this law was implemented. It was pretty hard on us.
Edit, btw, this is what we pay too, lol.
Tourists have to buy day passes or a discovery pass in Washington. Day passes are $11.50/day.
